[Stoves] Torrified Pellets

Mon May 25 09:49:29 CDT 2015

Dear Frank,

They tried but the results did not achieve statistical significance.

Best,

Dean

On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:

> Dear Dean,
>
>
> Did the three women interns doing the study of types of fuels and their
> corresponding combustion qualities come up with a final report? or planning
> to do so?
>
> I would be very interested in seeing this if it becomes available. I think
> this very important information as a precursor to developing a series of
> tests designed to determine if a fuel is suitable for a specific stove or
> predicting problems when using. All needed for BOX 1 of the six box system.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Shields
> franke at cruzio.com
>
>
> On May 24, 2015, at 2:35 PM, alex english <aenglish444 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Crispin,
> Here;
> http://me.queensu.ca/People/Pollard/
> Alex
>
> On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Alex
>>
>>
>>  Please put me in touch with the Queens Prof. I would like to discuss
>> fuel particle shape. I have a long term plan to make the heating stoves run
>> on them. The long term solution to zero PM stoves.
>>
>>  Thanks
>>  Crispin
>>
>>  Crispin,
>> A prof I know at Queens U. wants to make torrified sphere pellets that
>> can be pumped with water through pipelines, then separated.
>> A scalable biomass energy concept.
>>
>>  My comment to Dean related to the only combustion characteristic that
>> would be different  with torrified pellets from plane old wood pellets.
>> Flammability limits that I could test in my premix burner TLUD.  As
>> Ronald has already stated, differences I too doubt would show up in other
>> diffusion TLUDs.
>>
>>  The fuel matters, the stove matters, the price matters, the meal/task
>> matters, got it. I won't blame or credit the fuel alone, but charcoal
>> really is special :)
>>
>>  Alex
>>
>> On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
>> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Dear Alex
>>
>>
>>
>> The major reason to torrefy wood seems to be that it stops absorbing
>> moisture (mostly) and it weighs less per MJ. The EU is importing a lot of
>> pellets on this basis. The UK has a power station fired by them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *alex english
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 24, 2015 14:18
>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Torrified Pellets
>>
>>
>>
>> Torrified wood has most of it's volatiles.  I would expect the gases to
>> have a higher CV and wider range of flame stability when used in a premix
>> burner. Just guessing this has no relevance to cooking stoves.
>> Dean, what is the range, cat pee best to worst PM emissions, that you
>> have measured from any and all tluds when burning dry wood pellets?
>> Alex
>>
>> On 2015-05-24 1:53 PM, "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Ronald,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your helpful comments. Charcoal without remaining wood in it
>> doesn't make smoke but, of course, wood really likes to smoke. With biomass
>> the preparation including recipe, drying, pellet size, etc. makes a big
>> difference in emissions when trying to get down to the very low levels
>> needed to protect health. I'm making some torrified pellets and will report
>> back after testing under the hood.
>>
>>
>>
>> All Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser at web.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Dean,
>> I may seem like I'm harping here, but now that you've said a bit more,
>> you've mentioned a couple of factors that I have noticed in my limited
>> experience without a hood and therefore without concrete parametric
>> analysis, but for which I can give some postulates.
>>
>> 1. The wood-gas stove in design mode depends on a uniform fuel
>> "chunk-size" which promotes a level "pyrolysis" front(planar) migrating
>> towards the bottom of the stove. If that plane is broken by dis-uniformity
>> in the fuel or overly large gaps between the fuel pieces, you will get a
>> spot drop in temperature along with glowing fuel which will migrate
>> unevenly towards the bottom of the stove, breaking the pyrolysis front and
>> sometimes dropping the mean temp inside the burning chamber such that the
>> rising wood gas will no longer be close enough to critical temp that the
>> onset of 2nd-ary air will ignite it.
>>
>> 2. 1. would be consistent with the bark observation. Bark generally has
>> lots more minerals and less energy per unit mass. Did you/they assure
>> dryness level of the bark? Were the pieces between (cross-section/10-20) of
>> the stoves throat? Do you mean pellets from eucalyptus wood or when
>> eucalyptus oil is poured on the fuel? Off the shelf kerosin burners here in
>> germany are strictly regulated as to what you may or may not burn in them.
>> If it is smoking it is either wrong fuel, design flaw or user error.
>>
>> 3. Pellets pack closely, so if they are smoking, usually the problem can
>> be fixed by either turning up the fan a bit or putting some chimney length
>> between the secondary air and the pan to increase the draw. (i.e., the
>> primary air is probably not of sufficient pressure to deliver enough O2 to
>> the pyrolysis front to keep it hot enough such that it will ignite upon
>> contact with the secondary air.)
>>
>> 4. Because torrefied pellets are partially reacted, they may be somewhat
>> less dense and especially because the ends will be cleaner, they may not
>> resist airflow as much, which may help somewhat with 3. above. I would
>> expect them to act very similar to dry pellets, except for the difference
>> in density.
>>
>> regards,
>> Ronald von Aftermidnighttimeforantibiotics (and bed)
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 23.05.2015 23:49, Dean Still wrote:
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>>
>>
>> We had three women interns here at the research center for a summer who
>> found cleaner burning recipes for the TLUDs gathered from the surrounding
>> forest. Some things like bark make smoke, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Many pellets smoke when using eucalyptus, etc. Different mixtures of
>> kerosene make more or less smoke in off the shelf stoves.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if torrified pellets will burn cleaner than normal pellets.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser at web.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dean,
>> I remember that there was a proposed university program (W. Virginia or
>> the Carolinas??) In view of the deaths(not _many_ but tragic) that have
>> taken place due to off-loading of pellets at some European ports (CO in the
>> hold) The torrefaction could lead to a more inert fuel. That's hopeful
>> speculation on my part however. You would be transporting some less bound
>> water and the energy density is better than regular pellets in addition to
>> the lack of liquid or vapor H2O absorption issue mentioned before-- these
>> would lend efficiencies in the logistics end of things and an even more
>> uniform fuel than regular pellets, which tend to absorb quite a  bit of
>> water here in the damp winter weather...
>> I have to admit that I'm a bit puzzled as to what you mean by cleaner
>> fuel recipes. What specific pollutant are you interested in or are you
>> talking about particulate?
>> If you aren't choking the burn by putting the pot too close, you should
>> be getting a very clean burn with a TLUD?!?
>>
>> regards,
>> Ron
>>
>> On 23.05.2015 22:01, Dean Still wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ronald,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll keep looking. I think that we shouldn't forget cleaner fuel recipes
>> as part of the solution.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser at web.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dean,
>> I did some searching around on the internet several years ago on this
>> topic.
>> I'd like to try torrefied stuff as well, but I struck out at that time.
>> No idea where to find them.
>> The main advantage that I picked up on at that time was that they should
>> be relatively inert as to picking up extra water after they were pelletized.
>> Cleaner burning than what?
>> clean burning is a control issue, not a fuel issue as far as I
>> understand. If I understand the concept correctly, it's like using part of
>> the large molecules initially broken out (cracked) by the heat in the
>> reaction vessel to coat the surfaces of the remaining unpyrolized material.
>> This should burn quite okay in a TLUD.
>>
>> regards,
>> Ronald von Nasennebenhöhlenhölle (but I'm coming back)
>>
>>  On 23.05.2015 20:56, Dean Still wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd like to try torrified pellets in a TLUD under the emissions hood.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any ideas on where to find them?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or if it should be cleaner burning?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
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