[Stoves] Rights about stove designs Re: [biochar-stoves]

[neiltm at uwclub.net]

On 12 Sep 2015 at 12:00, stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:

> These cookstoves are not products with high margins for profit.   In 
> general, people and companies do NOT copy the products of others unless 
> the prospects of good solid profits are proven, and by definition that 
> means that the originator has proven profitability.   People copy 
> success, not effort.

There is a company in the UK - wildstoves.co.uk who supply woodburning 
stoves of all sorts to the leisure market and who designed their own ND 
wood gas camping stove which can also be used as a TLUD very successfully 
I have found. 
http://wildstoves.co.uk/wood-cooking-stoves/wood-gas-camping-stoves/wild-w
ood-gas-stove/

It has been extensively 'ripped off' by China directly selling through 
ebay superficially different stoves, notably changing the round holes to 
squares or trapeziums and retaining the original pot support design which 
is actually very good I've found.  The prices are a fraction of the 
wildstoves ones, but the quality of construction is excellent in nicely 
finished stainless steel as I have personally discovered.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-Weight-Wood-Gas-Backpacking-Emergency-Surviv
al-Burning-Camping-Stove-Bag-/261752774359?hash=item3cf1ae5ed7

I guess the size of the global leisure market is sufficient to make such 
copying worthwhile at least where the design is simple.  In fact there 
seems very little in the way of such products currently available, and 
Tom Reed's original LE fan stove has now ceased production with nothing 
really filling that gap.  I can imagine the leisure market receptive to 
some of the designs discussed here which might help such initiatives 
perhaps?  I'm receptive to them anyway.

While on the subject, as a leisure user in the UK and europe, using found 
wood in temperate climates often with high moisture content, I have found 
the Reed fan stoves fuel fussy, requiring very dry wood to start and run 
well especially if turning down.  Very nice clean burn when suitably dry 
wood is available or can be dried, leaving barely a stain on the bottom 
of the pans, whereas the wildstoves ND stove couldn't be more different.
It's difficult to measure the rounded diamond shaped holes for area, but 
the primary air appears to be in excess of the secondary air, but the 
result is a stove which is made for damp climate success.  It accepts 
fuel the fan stove would make a smoky mess with, and once going is a fair 
old blaze, especially as a TLUD with no possibility of turn down! Great 
for stir fry! Feeding it to sustain the burn can be quite an art, but can 
achieve a more manageable heat.  It of course leaves pans black and sooty 
as any open fire would.  None the less it is not only visibly cleaner 
than an open fire by virtue of the secondary burn, but so much easier to 
light and sustain than the FD which surprised me for a ND.

I also discovered to my delight when in the Pyrenees with it this summer 
that the small half litre kelly kettle perches on top of it perfectly 
without the pan support, and unlike my previous experiments with making 
or utilising a TLUD base for a kelly kettle, it boils water in a 
comparable time to its own normal fire base, doing so with no or much 
less smoke, thus also civilising it for use in proximity to neighbours.  
Under these conditions, as a TLUD finally the chimney pan support makes 
sense as the unit does not require refuelling for a sufficiently useful 
burn time, and with a strong 'volcano' of flame emerging from the chimney 
there is more useful heat.  I'm sure the fuel efficiency is less than for 
the normal fire base, but this can be reversed if also utilising the 
chimney heat.  It would be nice to see a comparable stove designed to fit 
the larger kelly kettles if only to extend their neighbourliness, and I 
am currently on the look out for suitable tincanium.

I hope some of my observations might be of interest, but recognise I'm 
probably a bit marginal on this list!

Best wishes,   Neil Taylor in England.