[Stoves] Clean coal burning stoves Re: History of clean Chinese stove development.

[alex english]

Hi Paul,
At the end of our Ontario Stove Camp, the provincial biomass energy
engineer who participated spoke up. He said that Mongolian coal stove
experience was a good news story for biomass because the challenges are
similar. It is a technical success. Crispin deals with the world as it is
now. Perhaps most of the human race will hit a wall in the future, but
shunning coal in Mongolia now would saying go ahead you folks can hit the
wall now.

I spent Wednesday at the University of British Columbia. My two stops were
the Anthropology Museum and the Biomass Research and Demonstration Facility
and the Museum of Anthropology
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBC_Biomass_Research_and_Demonstration_Facility
http://moa.ubc.ca/school-programs/educational-websites/

It was a study in contrasts. There is a large ornate ceramic tile heating
stove from 16th century Europe.The stoves had no doors in the room and were
fed through openings in another room by servants. As the rich got poorer
the stove doors into the room were added. The tiles images told stories.
The  older culture of the west coast Salish saw the open fire burning as
the soul of their homes where the doorway in, lined with teeth and lips, is
a mouth, and the roof rafters and wall posts are the rib cage. Their
cooking pots were wooden boxes. The "bent wood" box side were made from a
single plank often cut from a living cedar tree without killing the tree.
The plank is notched and steamed so only one vertical seam is left to seal.

>From there I got a tour of the 35 million dollar wood chip fueled  deep bed
(5 feet deep) updraft gasifier heating plant. It was supposed to produce a
gas that could be run through an engine to produce electricity. The gas
would have been a lot like what a tlud produces they planed to clean it.
More than half of the equipment is locked-out because it didn't work. They
are still producing 25% of the campus heat requirements. However it is
still debated whether biomass plants similar to these are reducing CO2 in
the atmosphere or are a net benefit to society. There are IPCC reports that
claim that biomass plants can be worse than coal plants. Details matter. It
looks like the UBC biomass plant has low emissions. Like Crispin's coal
stove, this is a very good start. They have a lot in common technically
 but I doubt UBC is cleaning west coast air:)

CPP up here refers to the Canada Pension Plan:)

Alex



On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Ron,
> 1.  I agree that the Stoves Listserv should not be further distracted or
> diverted by the issue of coal as a fuel.   We talked about it.  Fair
> enough.  On with the work on biomass stoves.
>
> 2.  We need to recognize that more stove efforts are driven by human
> health issues than by environmental health issues of atmospheric CO2 and
> climate change.   And others want stoves so that forests are saved for
> animal habitat.  Some folks do not share the same enthusiasms.   That is
> okay.
>
> 3.  We all will be watching to see how fast China moves from coal to
> renewable energy, especially relating to cooking and residential heating.
>
> 4.  How ironic?   You mention the important CPP, referring to the Clean
> Power Plan.   But CPP also stands for Crispin Pemberton-Pigott.  No further
> comment about that coincidence.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 9/16/2015 2:40 PM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>
> Paul and list:
>
> 1.  I mostly agree with everything you say below.  But mostly for reasons
> of wanting to save our valuable time, I now ask that this list stop talking
> about coal stoves.  Biomass only stoves would be in accordance with the way
> we started up almost 20 years ago (as the first list coordinator, I think I
> wrote that sentence - which I gave a few days ago).  It is worse than that
> we are wasting people’s time, with only one person ever bringing up coal
> and coal stove topics.
>
>
>
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