[Stoves] Testing to determine source of CO

[alex english]

Frank,
Some of the volatile hydrocarbons are burning in the primary too.
Alex

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:

> Alex, Stovers,
>
> Definitely more complex than I imagined. Sneakage - I never would have
> guessed. Hard to correct for that one.
>
> There are three sources of heat: 1) large volatile organics 2) Solid-C >
> CO and 3) CO > CO2.
>
> 1) The first one is only for the secondary
> 2) Second only for the combustion chamber
> 3) Third can be for the combustion chamber or the secondary
>
> So ignoring sneakage (Ha) it is only (3) that we have any control over. We
> add more primary air to add heat to the combustion chamber or less air to
> send it up to add heat to the secondary.
>
> We can measure the heat energy from all three using the pipe. And I think
> it might be these three values that we can use to categorize different
> biomass fuels (perhaps coals?). It could be that simple.
>
> Then to find the right architecture for a combustion chamber that reduces
> sneakage and cleanly burns.
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> Frank Shields
> franke at cruzio.com
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2015, at 11:41 AM, alex english <aenglish444 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Frank,
> I have measured between the primary and secondary zones of a TLUD. CO and
> CO2 were in the 8% to 11% range on a dry volume basis. Oxygen would be near
> zero. At the same time the stack concentration can be; CO  near zero, CO2 ~
> 12%, Oxygen ~8%.
>
> It is difficult to predict what would happen with CO injected at different
> levels. A secondary burner may be operating near the edge of its
> operational 'sweet spot' and any change will result in an increase in stack
> CO. It could also be that it is operating with to much excess air,( excess
> excess air if you will), and the added CO would be quickly oxidized,
> reducing excess air  and increasing the hot mix temperature, resulting in
> lower stack CO. In this scenario adding CO helps to better burn the CO that
> is already present.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings Stovers,
>>
>> The question I have is does the CO measured in the stack after the
>> secondary combustion come from Primary Combustion (PC) or Secondary
>> Combustion (SC)?
>>
>> As I understand how it works{
>>
>> We know the primary combustion will produce large organic pyrolysis gases
>> until the internal oxygen and hydrogen is consumed then will switch to
>> releasing heat with added outside oxygen as the solid goes to CO and CO to
>> CO2.
>>
>> So is the CO found in the stack from CO produced in the PC making its way
>> through the SC or from incomplete combustion of large organic structures
>> not properly prepared for the SC?
>>
>> If we were to set up a stove operating and measure the CO in the stack,
>> then introduce CO along with the primary air from a compressed CO tank -
>> would we see an increase in CO in the stack? or is it easily and completely
>> combusted in the secondary? If not seeing any and we kept increasing the CO
>> being delivered how high can we go before seeing ‘break through’? And then
>> if we increased primary air will the CO delivered combust in the combustion
>> chamber increase CO2 in the stack and increase combustion chamber
>> temperature?
>>
>> Im thinking the CO produced in the PC is very important in controlling
>> combustion chamber temperatures that prepare the complex pyrolysis gases
>> for the SC.
>>
>>
>> Im sure this simple experiment must have been done somewhere and
>> wondering what the results are.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>> franke at cruzio.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150920/7783cbe1/attachment.html>