[Stoves] report with dissapointing results from cleaner cookstoves (Andrew) - Malawi

Thu Dec 8 00:59:42 CST 2016

Dear Ron,
as a stove researcher I feel that smoke in the kitchen is a big nuisance
and it should be eliminated, even if its lethality cannot be proved.
Yours
A.D.Karve

***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
wrote:

> List,  cc Nikhil, Crispin et al
>
> I consider this to be the single least professional document I have yet
> seen on this list.  This is to tell anyone agreeing with Nikhil that his
> rants and ill will towards (apparently) everyone working on stoves do not
> coincide with anyone else’s thinking that I know in this business.  He has
> some strange mental aberration that is beyond my comprehension.
>
> It is too late at night to go into detail - but I will do so tomorrow - on
> at least the 28 emphasized words/topics below.  I repeat - I am embarrassed
> that anyone would treat honest stove research in the way he has done below
> (and many earlier times).  There must be some explanation for his
> ill-well.  Anyone know?
>
> I repeat - anyone who believes all this animosity - please wait until you
> hear the other side.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Traveller <miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah, another report on "scientific" advance. I see scientists *regressing*
> to *infantilism*.
>
> Andrew asks, "Is it because there are other vectors of the  illnesses
> linked to poverty?" (Do Smoke-free Stoves Really Save Lives
> <http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38160671>, BBC News 7 December 2016)
>
> Possibly, as Roger has pointed out.
>
> Any more details depend on the *price*. I have been surprised so often
> over the last 15-20 years, I stopped being surprised.
>
> For one, the Malawi study "was expected to show children are less likely
> to die of pneumonia if they live in a home where food is cooked on a
> smoke-free stove rather than an open fire."
>
> Ah, *forget* about "other vectors". The very premise is *presumptuous
> beyond common sens*e. What does "live in a home" mean, and what does
> "less likely to die of pneumonia" mean? Where do these *pundits* get
> their baseline data and the methods of testing likelihoods for different
> samples?
>
> Kevin Mortimer says,""Exposure to household air pollution is a problem of
> poverty. If you're not poor, you're not exposed."
>
> What *nonsense*. Emissions from uncontrolled combustion of fuels occur
> within "homes" as well as other cooking places, and they spread "outdoors"
> where exposures can occur to the poor as well as non-poor.
>
> They
> <http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)32507-7/fulltext>
> set out with an *untenable, ill-defined* hypothesis and put 8500+
> Malawian households under the researchers' eyes (no data on researchers'
> eyes or *brains*) - "10 543 children from 8470 households contributed 15
> 991 child-years of follow-up data to the intention-to-treat analysis." They
> "found no evidence".
>
> It is *amazing* that the first photo in the Beeb story is of a closed
> smokey kitchen with open fire, and the other is of a one-pot "improved
> stove" OUTSIDE the home. Maybe Gill wanted to* allege* that even outdoor
> cooking with improved stove does not yield any measurable health benefits.
>
>
> ********
>
> BBC wonders *"Where does this leave a huge UN-backed project.. **"*.
>
> Depends on what the meaning of "backed" is and what the meaning of UN is.
> Yes, some unrecognized *Uber Nuts* - otherwise known as *GACC*, a project
> with no legal personhood - have been feeding "Annual Reports", quarterly
> reports, CEO's golden words to the *gullible* media, but that amounts to*
> glib propaganda*, nothing else. Now that Antonio Gueterres is at the helm
> of the United Nations, he should formally resign from this* gang o
> <http://cleancookstoves.org/about/our-team/>f Hillary lovers* who have *nothing
> better* to do than host fine-wine-and-dine opportunities. Now that the
> South Lawn is beyond reach after 44 days, I would be *happy* to serve
> them wood-fired pizzas at Comet Ping Pong, and measure their pneumonias and
> premature deaths. Beer for $10 a pint.
>
> Wait a minute! BBC Action <http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding> is
> a NEW IMPLEMENTER PARTNER
> <http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/11-27-2016-new-partners-november-2016.html>
> of GACC and is funded by the same *delusional* donors who fund GACC
> (DfID, Govt of Norway), some more (US State Dept, EU) including some
> private companies (BMB Mott McDonald, DAI) who do "consulting" (which can
> mean expertise *cooked* to recipe).
>
> And, of course, by those *saviors* of the world looking for Golden Pills
> and fund the NIH/CDC kind of poverty *porn* by, ahem, "research", viz.
> Bill and Melinda Gateses.
>
> DfID also funded this "study", *passed off* as "hard science" to those
> *gullible* enough. Once you *imbibe* the GBD brew and get all
> *mushy-headed*, "hard science" is incarnated in BBC stories.
>
> *Blind* pundits *parroting* *platitudes* to the public.
>
> Nikhil
>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 17:07:06 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Roger Samson <rogerenroute at yahoo.ca>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] report with dissapointing results from cleaner
>>         cookstoves
>> Message-ID: <2117102759.1561055.1481130426403 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Hi Andrew and all
>>
>> I would have to read in more details the study and causes of pneumonia.
>> However it is known that most forms of pneumonia are linked to viral or
>> bacterial infections that spread from person to person.
>>
>> Its likely that indoor air pollution is not a primary cause of pneumonia
>> its weak immune systems and crowded living conditions ( like TB).  If you
>> look at community priorities indoor air pollution is not high on their
>> priority list compared to accessing better nutrition and health care.  You
>> might be better off to ventilate houses or work on improving food security
>> and nutrition in communities than installing expensive cook stoves if your
>> target is pneumonia.
>>
>>
>> regards
>>
>> Roger Samson
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Wed, 12/7/16, Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: [Stoves] report with dissapointing results from cleaner
>> cookstoves
>>  To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>  Received: Wednesday, December 7, 2016, 11:45 AM
>>
>>  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38160671
>>
>>  It's a surprising result and I would like to know why
>> the cleaner  stoves used did not return a lower incidence of
>> respiratory infections.
>>
>>  Is is because there are other vectors of the? illnesses linked to
>> poverty?
>>
>>  The two? good results were that the cleaner stoves appear to be
>> safer  and more economical to use.
>>
>>  AJH
>>
>> -----------------------
>>
>>
>
>
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