[Stoves] TLUD history...... was.Re: Accidental TLUD technique discovery

Wed Nov 16 16:07:33 CST 2016

Crispin,

Thanks for the useful comments.   I have seen some of these variations.  
Intreging.  Two fellows from New Mexico (?? Bill and ??) were at the 
August Biochar Production Gathering that I conducted in Oregon.   Their 
unit was continual because of pushing fresh fuel in from the bottom and 
withdrawing char at the top (and flaring the gases).

The reason that I do not make a big deal out of these 
"non-standard-TLUD" efforts is that they present a risk or a distraction 
that could result in people understanding the basic TLUD stove-size 
operations.  I am now focused on having *_TLUD usage_*, and the 
advancement of TLUD char production (for biochar OR for burning or 
filters, etc.)

I never studied micro-gasification from a "fun" or a "non-utilitarian" 
point of view.  From day one, it was always about getting this TLUD 
technology into a useful configuration that it can help people live 
better lives, especially the impoverished people.

If anyone is following up on your several suggestions, I hope that they 
report them to this Stoves Listserv.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 11/15/2016 11:17 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> Dear Paul
>
> Thanks for keeping an eye on core elements.
>
> I would like to highlight an existing technology (method?) because it is
> going to be missed as a form of gasification.
>
> This is too limiting in its interpretation:
>
> " ...has its ignition at the top BUT THE FIRE FOR GASIFICATION DOES NOT STAY
> AT THE TOP, but has the MPF (Migratory Pyrolytic Front) in action decending
> downward until it reaches the bottom of the fuel pile."
>
> Because:
> The fire can be developing radially from a central point into a fuel pile,
> which is the Boy Scout method.
> The fire can be developing 'on an angle' (tilted) into a fuel pile in one
> direction only (sort of like a crossdraft fire).
> The MPF can be in a true crossdraft configuration as in the KG4 and MK5
> combustors now being built in Bishkek, with constant shifting of the fuel so
> the MPF remains approximately in the same location as the fuel passes by.
> The fire can be developing from the surface of a cone of fire into the
> centre of a round conical pile.
>
> This last example is used in Russia (invented in Russia, anyway) is for
> burning fuel particles that are pumped from below into the centre of a
> conical pile sitting on a round plate. This is definitely a TLUD without
> having a flat MPF - the MPF is cone-shaped at all times. The fuel is pumped
> in the centre and the ash falls off the edge of the round plate. In the
> example I looked at the plate rotated, power by a motor, because it was
> huge. 320 kW as I recall.  This rotation somehow balances the shape of the
> pile and the rate of the ash falling off. It could of course be done at any
> scale.
>
> It could also be done for any shape. One could push fuel into the bottom of
> a TLUD gasifier and remove the ash or char at the top so the MPF was
> horizontal at all times. But it is not the only way to do it. That is my
> point. People are already using other profiles of the MPF. I think it is a
> good idea to include these systems in your lexicon.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
> Paul Anderson
> Sent: 16-Nov-16 11:50
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] TLUD history...... was.Re: Accidental TLUD technique
> discovery
>
> Neil and Crispin and all,
>
> What Crispin described and Neil found as the "upside down (pyramid)" at the
> REI website writings
>
> https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/campfire-basics.html
>
> does indeed relate to Paal Wendelbo's youthful experiences in Norway in the
> early 1940s.  How far back is the origin of that information?  Did
> the ancient Vikings make fires that way?   And when is it first
> described in early Boy Scout writings?
>
> Wendlebo is TLUD "Pyroneer" NOT because he made campfires like the older
> Norweigan men (or like early boy scouts or even earlier people.)   No.
> Wendelbo is a TLUD Pyroneer because he spent years of his spare time in
> Africa in the 1980s-90s accomplishing the task of "containerizeing" the
> top lit fire, in metal materials in his case.   He made the top-lit fire
> in a way that it can be picked up and moved around.   He made it so that
> the heat (secondary combustion) was at a specific location above which the
> pot could be supported.
>
> Top lit campfires and top lit stoves are sufficiently distinct so that
> Wendelbo is the only person known to have accomplished the containment
> inside a combustion chamber intended for cooking.  We are always open for
> documented evidence that someone else did the same thing.
>
> In contrast, Tom Reed (the other recognized originator of what are now TLUD
> gasifier cookstoves) arrived at similar processes but started from a
> theoretical perspective.  He turned upside-down the components of down draft
> (DD) gasification, and creating a cooking device, which he called IDD
> (Inverted DownDraft.  We now realize that the DD has its ignition and
> continual fire at the bottom of the fuel pile, whereas the IDD (or
> TLUD) has its ignition at the top BUT THE FIRE FOR GASIFICATION DOES NOT
> STAY AT THE TOP, but has the MPF (Migratory Pyrolytic Front) in action
> decending downward until it reaches the bottom of the fuel pile.
>
> Just think, that was only 30 years ago that those two men "containerized" or
> confined the "upside-down" fire and originated TLUD
> stoves.    [For more about those 30 years, please read the "Origins and
> History...... document at the   drtlud.com  website.]
>
> Paul
>
>
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