[Stoves] Burning homes, children, and spewing smokes from stoves (Frank Shields)

[Traveller]

Frank:

Thank you. It is the "cooking food" part where demographic and economic
changes imply that stoves as well as cooking patterns need to change. They
have changed in the 50-odd years I have observed cooking around the world -
at homes, just outside the built dwellings, and also in restaurant kitchens
and water  heaters.

In my more reflective moments, I do accept the argument that stove testing
and certification will help. My views are simply that

i) International standards are worthless; testing and stove design go
hand-in-hand at the local level, depending on the resource context and
users' priorities.
ii) Claims of computing causal links from stove emission rates in labs to
health benefits are "Blowing Smoke".
iii) There needs to be region-specific (i.e., larger than community,
smaller than the whole country in most areas) strategies for promoting
modern cooking as well as air quality management initiatives and biomass
waste management as needed.

I write this from "policy and planning" perspective, not technical aspects
of such approaches. The database of "global household air pollution" is
fictional and the claimed links to "Global Burden of Disease" is a
super-human effort to pollute the air.

Nikhil






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(US +1) 202-568-5831


On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 12:39 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:

> Nikhil and Stovers,
>
> For water; streams, lakes etc. The definition of Clean Enough is ‘upstream
> & downstream; Downstream of the introduction of possible contaminants
> cannot be higher than that found in background or upstream of the source. I
> worked with a company that introduced discharge into a sewer and because of
> the ‘high’ concentrations were about to be forced to shutdown. The amount
> was less than drinking water standards but still higher than upstream.
>
> You write:
>
> I just don't believe that by itself, boiling water does anything but feed
> the researchers.
>
>
> This is ALL important. Boiling water and cooking food. Thats because that
> is the entire purpose of the stoves we are working on. Cooking food.
> Nothing to do with cleaning air. To re-direct the purpose to cleaning air
> is just Blowing Smoke. Now you know the definition of Smoke.
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2016, at 1:28 AM, Traveller <miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anil:
>
> Let me throw some questions at you. I hope you reply, because then I will
> respond accordingly.
>
> 1. What is "smoke"?
>
> 2. What is the proper measure of "clean"? Who decides, why and how? Why
> does it matter if some stove is "clean", to whom and traded off against
> what other criteria to choose to purchase or use?
>
> --
>
> As for ethanol stoves, why aren't ethanol stoves "clean enough"? Because
> they have high 15-minute emission rates for CO?
>
> It's exposures that matter, not emissions. Or emission rates. This is why
> the ISO IWA exercise is "fundamental folly" without a context. I do agree
> with the principle of testing and ranking stoves in terms of desired
> qualities. I just don't believe that by itself, boiling water does anything
> but feed the researchers.
>
> --
> I hope someone else tells me what "smoke" means. There is too much of
> blowing rings about stoves and smoke.
>
>
> Nikhil
>
>
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