[Stoves] Fwd: Holy dung, holy renewable energy, holy writs (Re: Anand Karve)

[Anand Karve]

Dear stovers,
here are some more facts about the use of cowdung in India.  Farmers, at
least in the Western part of Maharashtra, have stopped using oxen for farm
work and for drawing bullock carts, because it is cheaper to hire a tractor
or a small truck for such wok than maintaining oxen. The only cattle they
own are cows and bufellos for milk. They are milked in the evening and in
the morning. Every morning the head of the household rides his motorcycle
to take the milk cans to the nearest city. He sells the milk and loiters
for the rest of the day in the city, where he visits coffee shops and video
parlours, perhaps also a prostitute, drinks a few pegs of liquor and comes
home in the evening, after having spent all the money that he may have
earned by selling the milk. If any money is left, he uses it for buying a
sack or two of feed concentrate for the milch cattle. The household
expenses are met entirely through money earned by the womenfolk by selling
dung cakes. The dung is stored for a few days and cakes are made only when
a sufficiently large quantity has accumulated. To stop decomposition of
dung storage, a bactericidal chemical is added to it. I learned about it
the hard way, when, after adding dung to my biogas plant as inoculum, I
failed to get any reaction from my gas plant.
Yours
A.D.Karve
***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Holy dung, holy renewable energy, holy writs (Re: Anand Karve)
To: miata98 at gmail.com


Dear Nikhil,
here are some facts about cowdung.  Farmers, at least in the Western part
of Maharashtra, have stopped using oxen for farm work and for drawing
bullock carts. The only cattle they own are cows and bufelloes for milk.
They are milked in the evening and in the morning. Every morning the head
of the household rides his motorcycle to take the milk cans to the nearest
city. He sells the milk and loiters for the rest of the day in the city,
where he visits coffee shops and cinema houses, perhaps also a prostitute,
drinks a few pegs of liquor and comes home in the evening, after having
spent all the money that he may have earned by selling the milk. If any
money is left, he uses it for buying a sack or two of feed concentrate for
the milch cattle. The household expenses are met entirely through money
earned by the womenfolk by selling dung cakes. The dung is stored for a few
days and cakes are made only when a sufficiently large quantity has
accumulated. To stop decomposition of dung while it is stored, a
bactericidal chemical is added to it. I learned about it the hard way,
when, after adding dung to my biogas plant as inoculum, I failed to get any
reaction from my gas plant.
Yours
A.D.Karve

***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Traveller <miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Moderator: I changed the subject line. This is continuation of discussion
> on dung and biogas. I will have more separately.
> -----
>
> Dr Karve  has highlighted a key issue ignored by most of the "household
> energy" analysts and policy advisors I know of (my ignorance gets
> convenient blame; I don't own it).
>
> Namely, changing markets for different kinds of biomass, in this case the
> (implicit) netback values of COW dungcakes in certain parts of India.
>
> The "higher standard of living" refers to higher consumption of
> ritualistic services among the so-called Hindus - fires with dungcakes at
> certain prayers at temples or homes. The markets for these services
> increases with incomes as well as population.
>
> Or with reduction in population, namely deaths. I have gone to three
> cremations in India recently, and noted down the price of dungcakes, but
> have lost my notes. What Dr. Karve cites - $1 for dungcakes from 40 kg dung
> - seems very cheap to me. Perhaps that is what the dung owner gets, whether
> from his own cows or collection of dung from public areas.
>
> Since dungcakes sell for about $1.60 USc to $4 per kg (in $8 for 4.8 kg
> <http://www.amazon.in/Amit-Marketing-100%25-Dung-Gobar/dp/B01CR0PE0Q/>
>  and $2 for 449g
> <http://www.amazon.in/Amit-Marketing-100%25-Dung-Gobar/dp/B01CR0PE0Q/>)
> on amazon.in, I am guessing street price in cities is around USc 50 per
> kg for the seller.
>
> If 40 kg dung makes 30-40 kg dry dungcakes (loss of water but addition of
> straw), the owner is financially better off, compared to using dung for
> biogas, and everybody in the value chain
>
> Sounds like EPA/ISO "fundamental foolishness" with high-cost lab testing
> (more if tested in the field), no? :-)
>
> I do respect high transaction costs and RD&D expenditures - I have been a
> beneficiary of such - IF they advance knowledge and innovative ideas. What
> I have seen from some advocates of "performance standards" for biomass
> stoves is pathetic propaganda, abuse of knowledge.
>
> But there is a common thread to all this - presumed holiness, whipping up
> religious fervor.
>
> Cow dung in India is holy . Perhaps certified as such by some priests of
> India's National (Rashtriya) SS for whom cow is mother, cow dung is holy.
>
> --------------------
>
> We have all become such religious fundamentalists like India's SS.  Or the
> Taleban.
>
> We have made "renewable energy" a god, and "renewable biomass" even a
> holier God.
>
> And now we want holy writs from WHO/EPA/GACC as to what standards poor
> people's stoves must comply with?
>
> Holy Cow!!
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 10:05:12 +0530
> > From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> > To: energiesnaturals <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>,    Discussion of biomass
> >    cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi tech cow dung technology (Anil Rajvanshi)
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CACPy7SdjZXpBSAtFmZZY2s+hxuEz0fp1q2MdCTsJ9uTg7zWFaA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dear Rolf,
> >
> > when you decide on adopting any technology, you have to consider all the
> > pros and cons, economics and priorities. For a typical Indian farmer,
> using
> > dung as cooking fuel in the form of biogas is a very costly techbnology.
> He
> > would need about 40 kg dung every day for producing the necessary amount
> of
> > gas. Because of higher standard of living of people in the cities, the
> > ritual use of dung cakes and also their price has increased. The dung
> cakes
> > made from 40 kg dung can be sold for *US$1 *. Spending a dollar every day
> > for cooking the meals is absurd, because the food that the family eats,
> > costs less than that. We are advocating that villagers use biogas plants
> of
> > our design. 10 kg green leaves yield the same amount of biogas as 40 kg
> > cowdung, and it takes only three days for the leaves to do this, while
> dung
> > has to remain in the biogas plant for about 40 days.   Dung can be used
> as
> > an agricultural input. I have been advocating a type of agriculture which
> > uses no fertilizers, because all the minerals required by plants are
> > available in the natural soil. Just yesterday I saw on the t.v. an
> > interview of a proponent of this type of farming.  He claimed that about
> > four million farmers in India followed his advice. All he advocates is to
> > apply to the farmland 25 kg cowdung per ha, once a month. This keeps the
> > number of micro-organisms in soil  high, and it is the microbes which in
> > turn make the soil minerals available to the plants. In my lectures, I
> > advocate the use of 125kg green leaves per ha, once every two months.
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > A.D.Karve
> >
> >
> >
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> >
> > Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
> >
> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> ---------
> (India +91) 909 995 2080
>
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