[Stoves] Holy dung, holy renewable energy, holy writs (Re: Anand Karve)

[Traveller]

Moderator: I changed the subject line. This is continuation of discussion
on dung and biogas. I will have more separately.
-----

Dr Karve  has highlighted a key issue ignored by most of the "household
energy" analysts and policy advisors I know of (my ignorance gets
convenient blame; I don't own it).

Namely, changing markets for different kinds of biomass, in this case the
(implicit) netback values of COW dungcakes in certain parts of India.

The "higher standard of living" refers to higher consumption of ritualistic
services among the so-called Hindus - fires with dungcakes at certain
prayers at temples or homes. The markets for these services increases with
incomes as well as population.

Or with reduction in population, namely deaths. I have gone to three
cremations in India recently, and noted down the price of dungcakes, but
have lost my notes. What Dr. Karve cites - $1 for dungcakes from 40 kg dung
- seems very cheap to me. Perhaps that is what the dung owner gets, whether
from his own cows or collection of dung from public areas.

Since dungcakes sell for about $1.60 USc to $4 per kg (in $8 for 4.8 kg
<http://www.amazon.in/Amit-Marketing-100%25-Dung-Gobar/dp/B01CR0PE0Q/> and $2
for 449g
<http://www.amazon.in/Amit-Marketing-100%25-Dung-Gobar/dp/B01CR0PE0Q/>) on
amazon.in, I am guessing street price in cities is around USc 50 per kg for
the seller.

If 40 kg dung makes 30-40 kg dry dungcakes (loss of water but addition of
straw), the owner is financially better off, compared to using dung for
biogas, and everybody in the value chain

Sounds like EPA/ISO "fundamental foolishness" with high-cost lab testing
(more if tested in the field), no? :-)

I do respect high transaction costs and RD&D expenditures - I have been a
beneficiary of such - IF they advance knowledge and innovative ideas. What
I have seen from some advocates of "performance standards" for biomass
stoves is pathetic propaganda, abuse of knowledge.

But there is a common thread to all this - presumed holiness, whipping up
religious fervor.

Cow dung in India is holy . Perhaps certified as such by some priests of
India's National (Rashtriya) SS for whom cow is mother, cow dung is holy.

--------------------

We have all become such religious fundamentalists like India's SS.  Or the
Taleban.

We have made "renewable energy" a god, and "renewable biomass" even a
holier God.

And now we want holy writs from WHO/EPA/GACC as to what standards poor
people's stoves must comply with?

Holy Cow!!

Nikhil



------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2016 10:05:12 +0530
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: energiesnaturals <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>,    Discussion of biomass
>    cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Hi tech cow dung technology (Anil Rajvanshi)
> Message-ID:
>    <CACPy7SdjZXpBSAtFmZZY2s+hxuEz0fp1q2MdCTsJ9uTg7zWFaA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Rolf,
>
> when you decide on adopting any technology, you have to consider all the
> pros and cons, economics and priorities. For a typical Indian farmer,
using
> dung as cooking fuel in the form of biogas is a very costly techbnology.
He
> would need about 40 kg dung every day for producing the necessary amount
of
> gas. Because of higher standard of living of people in the cities, the
> ritual use of dung cakes and also their price has increased. The dung
cakes
> made from 40 kg dung can be sold for *US$1 *. Spending a dollar every day
> for cooking the meals is absurd, because the food that the family eats,
> costs less than that. We are advocating that villagers use biogas plants
of
> our design. 10 kg green leaves yield the same amount of biogas as 40 kg
> cowdung, and it takes only three days for the leaves to do this, while
dung
> has to remain in the biogas plant for about 40 days.   Dung can be used as
> an agricultural input. I have been advocating a type of agriculture which
> uses no fertilizers, because all the minerals required by plants are
> available in the natural soil. Just yesterday I saw on the t.v. an
> interview of a proponent of this type of farming.  He claimed that about
> four million farmers in India followed his advice. All he advocates is to
> apply to the farmland 25 kg cowdung per ha, once a month. This keeps the
> number of micro-organisms in soil  high, and it is the microbes which in
> turn make the soil minerals available to the plants. In my lectures, I
> advocate the use of 125kg green leaves per ha, once every two months.
>
> Yours
>
> A.D.Karve
>
>
>
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
>
> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
---------
(India +91) 909 995 2080
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