[Stoves] Revisiting WBT and performance metrics - revisiting history

[Nikhil Desai]

Xavier:

I don't know about Ecostove performing badly with the WBT and still being
superior to the traditional stoves. As you know, I don't think much of the
efficiency metric -- no tree needs to be "saved" if its use has a higher
value - and PM2.5 is only a recent fad thanks to Kirk Smith and WHO. I
don't think much of mg/min emission rates cooked into the cake of annual
average concentrations irrespective of fuel and cooking practices.

But if Ecostove is found to be usable and used, that is a success, no
matter what lab tests say. Maybe only a success of marketing and delivery
chains, but that - as Kirk Smith says after his second epiphany - is more
important than mere science.

Science and marketing merge in product engineering. Let's see who succeeds.
Do you think the ISO TC-285 exercise is less about science and more about
marketing, by fooling people about "health benefits" or specific mg/min
Emission Rate ranges for different Tiers?

Nikhil

------------------------
Nikhil Desai
(US +1) 202 568 5831
*Skype: nikhildesai888*

On Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Xavier Brandao <xvr.brandao at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Nikhil,
>
>
>
> Thanks for sharing these 2 papers. They really nailed it, and that was
> already back in 2011.
>
>
>
> The Aprovecho Research Center has been pushing for years the WBT and
> rocket stove designs with their golden rules without the expected success.
>
> The example of the Ecostove is really interesting. It performs badly with
> the WBT but probably still is a great stove compared to the traditional
> stoves. It shows how much relying on the WBT has been problematic.
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
>
>
> I have to look more into detail this new handbook by the GACC and MIT.
>
> I think I'll post about it next week.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Xavier
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *De :* Nikhil Desai [mailto:pienergy2008 at gmail.com]
> *Envoyé :* mardi 1 août 2017 20:28
> *À :* Xavier Brandao
> *Cc :* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Cecil Cook; Tami Bond; Robert van der
> Plas; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Objet :* Revisiting WBT and performance metrics - revisiting history
>
>
>
> List, Xavier:
>
> I stumbled upon paper a few months ago - Sustaining Culture with
> Sustainable Stoves:The Role of Tradition in Providing Clean-BurningStoves
> to Developing Countries
> <http://www.consiliencejournal.org/index.php/consilience/article/viewFile/157/67>,
>  Consilience, The Journal of Sustainable Development Vol. 5, Iss. 1 (2011),
> Pp. 71-95. Britta Victor Department of Anthropology Princeton University,
> Princeton, NJ  .
>
>
> It is relevant to the earlier discussion on the tensions between physical
> and social scientists or students of cultures and foods, and the pursuit of
> energy efficiency as the sole metric.
>
> There is another 2011 paper - A Review of Global Cookstoves Programs
> <https://mlgifford.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/cookstove-programs_berkeley-thesis.pdf>,
> by Mary Louise Gifford - that cites some of the same material that is cited
> by Britta Victor, and reaches similar, though less strong conclusions,
> namely that global technologists alone are likely to fail.
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> Excerpt from Britta Victor's Sustaining Culture with Sustainable
> Stoves:The Role of Tradition in Providing Clean-Burning Stoves to
> Developing Countries
> <http://www.consiliencejournal.org/index.php/consilience/article/viewFile/157/67>,
> Consilience
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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