[Stoves] Project Drawdown

Wed Aug 30 10:46:03 CDT 2017

Jock and list:

	Yours below is an important message - the first extra information re biochar (or any approach) beyond the limited information in the book (which I bought in e-book form).  I can’t find it now, but remember reading that all the model information would be publicly available “soon”.

	So ,  It would be of great help to everyone, but especially to Paul Hawken and this Project, for everyone to know ALL the pertinent assumptions/cites behind each technology in their list. We should also know who are the authorities involved.   As an example, why did they assume that biochar would only be associated with food (and not energy nor materials nor water quality nor fertilizer and irrigation savings - much less CDR [carbon dioxide removal] or simply improving land values)?  All are taking place today - with favorable economics.

	One of the main reasons that biochar is ranked so low is that BECCS (the only technology that I often (inappropriately) see ranked higher than biochar) is not even listed at all!   Afforestation is ranked highly, but the fact that both large scale biochar and BECCS would require similar or larger land use doesn’t appear.     

	The horrible intentional use of fire to clear land is not mentioned (where much more carbon could go into soil via biochar, and the presently-lost energy could replace all forms of fossil energy).  Forests everywhere are unhealthy because there is too much biomass - caused by the (commendable) desire to terminate wildfires as quickly as possible.

	Why not couple biochar with improving ocean health?  Are the oceans coupled with CDR anywhere in this model?

	My guess is that their assumption that biochar only fits into their food category also assumes a low increment - see below.

	Your great new connection to the Project suggests that you should remain biochar’s main contact;  this will help them a lot.

See a few more inserts below.

> On Aug 28, 2017, at 7:47 PM, Jock Gill <jock at jockgill.com> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps
	RWL1:   No - definitely!
> of interest:
> 
> From: Jeff Gilliland <jeff.gilliland at drawdown.org <mailto:jeff.gilliland at drawdown.org>>
> Date: May 15, 2017 at 7:44:05 PM EDT
> To: jock at jockgill.com <mailto:jock at jockgill.com>
> Subject: Re: Biochar in Drawdown
> 
> Dear Mr. Gill,
>  
> Thank you for contacting Project Drawdown. Apologies for the delay: we have been quite busy promoting Drawdown for the last month! 
>  
> I sent your comments about the Biochar solution on to Project Drawdown's research team, and here is what they said: 
> 
> "Thank you for taking the time to write us. We chose to model biochar primarily as a sequestration technique, despite its potential for energy.
		[RWL2:  And bioenergy already today is often shown as the largest form of renewable energy worldwide (competing with hydropower) - both larger still than wind and solar for electricity.  Too much biochar today is produced without attention to its huge potential capability to backup wind and solar (displacing natural gas).   

	They have also ignored the potential of char-making stoves - where half the world’s population could benefit for health reasons alone, much less income generation.  Many times their small projection for biochar in just this one application/source for biochar.

> Our model assumes that a maximum of 50% of crop residues that are currently burned are instead used as biochar feedstock.
		[RWL3:  The words “currently burned” is itself limiting - but the resource base for biochar is much larger than crop residues - and all use is beneficial - including income - not expense - generation.
>  
> We also avoided including sequestration impacts from application to soils, as data on this is not sufficiently robust. However we did model a yield increase from soil application.”
		[RWL4:    One key word is “sufficiently”, but this appears to say that biochar received zero credit for CDR [carbon dioxide removal].   Admittedly the right amount is not yet agreed upon for all combinations of char, soil, crops and weather - but the terra preta soils demonstrate that the right amount is greater than zero.  The IPCC is calling for increasing soil carbon - why should biochar’s sequestration impact be avoided?   There are repeat customers for more than 100 biochar companies in the US alone.  
	It’s good to see they modeled yield increases, but if it was 5 or 10%, that number is way too low on average.  Hans-Peter’s most recent paper showed an average 100% increase - as seen with Terra Preta soils, after 500 years.

>  
> I hope that helps explain our approach and position! 
		[RWL5 -  To better understand biochar’s potential, we need to understand ALL the assumptions for ALL 100 technologies.   Is there now public access to the model - or when?  Without the promised access to the model, the whole exercise should be ignored.
>  
> As for glass batteries and better solar cells, we will certainly keep our eye on those as the technologies develop. We intend to update the book every year or two, so with any luck they will make it into the next version!

		[RWL:  These are carbon neutral issues.  That battle is over - and we have won.  But the carbon negative issue is still much alive and much needed.

	Jock - thanks for getting through to this project.  Let’s hope they open up further (through you).

Ron

>  
> Thanks, all the best,
> 
> Jeff Gilliland
> Communications Coordinator
> Project Drawdown
> jeff.gilliland at drawdown.org <mailto:jeff.gilliland at drawdown.org> 
> Visit us at drawdown.org <http://drawdown.org/>
> Jock Gill 
> P.O. Box 3
> Peacham 
> VT 05862
> 
> Cell: 617-449-8111
> 
> Regenerate the Commons 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 28, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> I thank Trevor of the Biochar Listserv for introducing the topic.   It is a worthy topic for the Stoves list, also.     Trevor wrote:
>> 
>> >>>I've just seen Paul Hawkin present his pitch for Project Drawdown...
>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=0zaTGMl11hs <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zaTGMl11hs>
>>>> Long but compelling viewing.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm keen to hear from our resident biochar climate change gurus on biochar review methodology, ranking and placement under 'food' when it could also reside under energy, land use and materials.
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/biochar <http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/biochar>
>>>> 
>>>> In his presentation, they declare v.conservative approach to measurement. Should the biochar community of experts be engaging more closely with this initiative?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for pointing out these two videos.   First one is 1 hr 17 minutes.   And I stayed with it to the end.  Very informative.   Second one is also over an hour, but in the first 6 minutes I determined that it is a repeat of the same talk to a different group.  __,_._,___
>> Thanks for pointing out these two videos.   First one is 1 hr 17 minutes.   And I stayed with it to the end.  Very informative.   Second one is also over an hour, but in the first 6 minutes I determined that it is a repeat of the same talk to a different group.  
>> You should look at one of them, and I refer to the first one..
>> 
>> At minute 32:26 there is a list of the top 20 Drawdown ""ways" (approaches??).   Well worth studying (and is discussed in the subsequent few slides and minutes.   Numbers linke #1 (refrigeration and AC ) is listed as 89 GT (gigatonnnes CO2e) by the year 2050, which is 30 years away from 2020 (their starting point).  Correct me if I am wrong, but that is 89 GT TOTAL in those 30 years, not 89 GT per year.
>> 
>> And the grand total is 1051 GT ,   See the summary table at:
>> http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank <http://www.drawdown.org/solutions-summary-by-rank>
>> 
>> #10 is rooftop solar, at 24 GT.
>> 
>> #20 is nuclear (admitedly controversial) at 16 GT.    
>> 
>> and #21 is Clean Cookstoves, at 15.8 GT 
>> 
>> The top 20 account for about 75% of the total drawdown being discussed.   MANY other ways are in small numbers of GT.   Of special note is #72 Biochar, calculated as 0.8 GT by 2050.
>> 
>> This is all for discussion.
>> 
>> My calculations about TLUD stoves that earn carbon credits and produce charcoal are:
>> 
>> 1.  Goal of 250 MILLION stoves by 2030, but just say it is to be by 2050.   
>> 2.  Each stove earns 4 carbon credits (each is 1 tonne CO2e) per year.   That would be 1000 Million tonnes.   Which is 1 GT .....   PER YEAR!!
>> 
>> 3.  Do that for 30 years and that becomes 30 GT.      WHAT IS THIS?        Just the TLUD stoves for poor people could be double what is calculated by the Drawdown book.
>> 
>> So, Please correct me about any errors by me.    Let each Listserv do its own discussion.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>> On 8/27/2017 9:47 PM, trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz <mailto:trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz> [biochar] wrote:
>>> I've just seen Paul Hawkin present his pitch for Project Drawdown...
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=0zaTGMl11hs <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zaTGMl11hs>
>>> Long but compelling viewing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm keen to hear from our resident biochar climate change gurus on biochar review methodology, ranking and placement under 'food' when it could also reside under energy, land use and materials.
>>> 
>>> http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/biochar <http://www.drawdown.org/solutions/food/biochar>
>>> 
>>> In his presentation, they declare v.conservative approach to measurement. Should the biochar community of experts be engaging more closely with this initiative?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __._,_.___
>>> Posted by: trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz <mailto:trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz>
>>> Reply via web post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/22099;_ylc=X3oDMTJybTJvZ3NyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMyMjA5OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE1MDM4ODg0MzU-?act=reply&messageNum=22099> 	•	Reply to sender  <mailto:trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz?subject=Re%3A%20Project%20Drawdown> 	•	Reply to group  <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Project%20Drawdown> 	•	Start a New Topic <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZWpkcDNsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE1MDM4ODg0MzU-> 	•	Messages in this topic <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/topics/22099;_ylc=X3oDMTM3N2FlZm9xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMyMjA5OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE1MDM4ODg0MzUEdHBjSWQDMjIwOTk-> (1) 
>>>  
>>> Have you tried the highest rated email app?
>>>  <https://yho.com/1wwmgg>With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.
>>> VISIT YOUR GROUP <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdnFka3MzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE1MDM4ODg0MzU->
>>>  <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcm5hc25lBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTUwMzg4ODQzNQ-->• Privacy <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> • Unsubscribe <mailto:biochar-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> • Terms of Use <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> 
>>> .
>>>  
>>> 
>>> __,_._,___
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>> 
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> 
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> 
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ <http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170830/3e18feb9/attachment.html>