[Stoves] Correction of typing -- sorry : Re: stove AND 6-BOX SYSTEM

Tue Dec 12 12:24:30 CST 2017

Paul,

What was wrong with the first one?

If you have [acorns] and [using a system] you [complete the task] of 
getting the water hot enough for tea then that is a successful system.

Now one can experiment with faster, fewer acorns, less PM2.5 etc. First 
we need to set up and work off a systematic scientific approach.

I would hesitate in using words like 'fire power' and 'power level' 
because you will bring in the engineers. Its just words like 'the time 
it takes' for now. Now the best place for engineers is working on 
finishing the calculations for the WBT with Ron leading the way. <wink>

Once we get the variables controlled there will be a lot of things we 
can do. And all the calculations the engineers want to do for purpose of 
improving the system may be possible and we can go back to look at 
them.  But we need to use wild biomass and have good controls of the 
process in an organized way first or we go in circles.

i think the TLUD will benefit most from this because it is so much more 
important to get the fuel processed and packed properly.

Regards

Frank

Frank Shields
Gabilan Laboratory

On 12/12/17 9:45 AM, Paul Anderson wrote:
> Stovers,
>
> I usually re-read my messages before sending, but I messed up on this 
> last one.  Below is the same message wth corrected English and typing.
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: 	Re: [Stoves] stove AND 6-BOX SYSTEM
> Date: 	Tue, 12 Dec 2017 11:09:31 -0600
> From: 	Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: 	Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
>
>
> Frank,
>
> To know the actual power as a calculated number MIGHT not be so 
> important. But conversations and comparisons need to be in the right 
> ballpark about how powerful a stove is.
>
> In the case of the "tea-test", the info in the 6 boxes needs to be the 
> same except for one variable that is being studied.   And there will 
> be some level of fire power that is to be held constant (unless that 
> is the variable being studied).  Also, when another variable is 
> changed, the impact might be seen in the "power level" that is 
> expressed as how much faster or slower the pot came to boil (therefore 
> the use of the clock/watch.).
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com
> On 12/11/2017 11:58 PM, Frank Shields wrote:
>>
>> Very funny Paul.
>>
>> I don't think knowing the thermal power is at all important. Ask the 
>> s/he using the stove what thermal power they want. What?!  and I have 
>> always wondered if changing the thickness of the pot is best to 
>> control the heat. Thick walled pot and more seconds to heat the task. 
>> But certainly no number is needed nor possible.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/17 9:23 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
>>> Frank,
>>>
>>> Your USE of the 6-box system is the clearest explanation that I have 
>>> read.   Your comments put it into practical perspective.
>>>
>>> Philip Lloyd's comment about wanting to know the thermal power is 
>>> correct.   And you can overcome that with a watch that shows 
>>> seconds.   Record the time-to-boil.   Record it in Box 5 or 6, right?
>>>
>>> And it certainly could be useful for Michael's needs.  Or for 
>>> teaching science under a tree in rural Africa.
>>>
>>> **** joke:  Michael teaches at the college.   but if he was studying 
>>> there, this could become known as    student's tea-test     (Ouch!) ***
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Website:www.drtlud.com
>>> On 12/11/2017 10:13 PM, Frank Shields wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michael, Stovers;
>>>>
>>>> This is a good example where the 6-Box system would be useful.
>>>>
>>>> Set up the system so it makes good tea. The process is to control 
>>>> the variables and modify one at a time to improve the process. 
>>>> There are lots of steps you can do but would take some time, test 
>>>> methods and a little equipment. All simple but not good at this 
>>>> time. Once you have a good fuel, good technique, and can produce a 
>>>> good cup of tea I suggest the following:
>>>>
>>>> Box-1) Observe the fuel for size, moisture, cleanliness etc.
>>>>
>>>> Box - 2: Record the process loading the combustion chamber.
>>>>
>>>> Box- 3: Record the combustion chamber; stove model etc.
>>>>
>>>> Box-4: Establish info regarding the utensils used; metal, size, 
>>>> heavy-light etc.
>>>>
>>>> Box-5: Record the process; stirring, amount of water, amount of 
>>>> tea, sugar added etc.
>>>>
>>>> Box-6: Determine a good repeatable Completion Point. Perhaps water 
>>>> just starts to boil or i can hold my hand on the side of the pot 
>>>> for just one second.
>>>>
>>>> You need to know what an improvement would look like for you. 
>>>> Quicker tea but not care of amount of fuel. Save on fuel, walk away 
>>>> with less manipulation, air quality, amount of char left, quality 
>>>> of char produced, etc. Whats important is what the end user decides 
>>>> important.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now all steps are controlled and should be repeatable. You can 
>>>> change one Box at a time and see if that improves the process. Use 
>>>> dryer wood or stir more frequently. Use a lighter pot or less 
>>>> water. Add wood more frequent in smaller quantities - try to get 
>>>> the best conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Because no-one else is doing the same system you will not be able 
>>>> to compare to other systems. But you might be able to improve your 
>>>> own. And there are lots of measurements for the fuel that can be 
>>>> made (not described here) but use simple test methods and no need 
>>>> for a real lab. Perhaps just some basic equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>> Gabilan Laboratory
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/11/17 6:24 PM, Michael N Trevor wrote:
>>>>> Lets look at this another way.
>>>>> NO lab,
>>>>> NO equipment
>>>>> How do I test?
>>>>> I thinking how well it cooks my tea is a good tool
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Frank Shields
444 Main Street Apt. 4205
Watsonville, CA  95076

(831) 246-0417 cell
franke at cruzio.com

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