[Stoves] Understanding TLUDs, MPF and more. (was Re: Bangladesh TLUD )

Ronal W. Larson rongretlarson at comcast.net
Thu Dec 14 10:16:09 CST 2017


Andrew and list:

	Great response below.  I agree with all parts (but wondering where/when the word “nazi” first appeared)


	I have a different take on this “TLUD" topic.  My concern is that “TLUD” or (your preferred term) “descending pyrolysis front”  (DPF) don’t get at what I consider the main distinguishing features:
	a.   TLUDs are air controllers (AC) , as opposed to fuel controllers (FC)
	b.   TLUDs are charcoal makers (CM), as opposed to ash makers (AM)

So we could call Paul “Dr. A-TLUD” and he can shorten that to Dr.  TLUD, whenever he wishes.  His first name, which starts with A is ACME,  short hand for “air controlled char maker”.  Others can call him/it just “ACME”.  

Google says this about “acme”:
the point at which someone or something is best, perfect, or most successful.
"physics is the acme of scientific knowledge"
synonyms:	peak, pinnacle, zenith, height, high point, crown, crest, summit, top, apex, apogee

So it follows that  A-TLUDs are the ACME of small biomass cookstoves.

of course other small biomass cookstove types would have more descriptive names like F-Rockets  (F short for FCAM).

It would also follow that the list moderator becomes Andrew A-DPF.   (or he could choose another words still meaning DPF.)  (I want P for pyrolysis to stay)

Thoughts?  

Ron


	 


> On Dec 14, 2017, at 7:35 AM, Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 02:26:52 +0000,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are correct: the gasifier that burns charcoal with a descending "fire front" (is that OK with you?) is a TLUD gasifier, not a TLUD pyrolyser.
> 
> As Norbert has pointed out there are many top down updraught fires,
> but I thought we were discussing "migratory pyrolysis front" which is
> fairly specific to the clean burning class of stoves first mentioned
> on this list by Tom Reed and Ronal. I only used the term TLUD as it is
> commonly understood on this list. As I said I would prefer the term
> descending pyrolysis front and I was quite happy with Inverted Down
> Draught as Down Draught gasifiers, like imberts  were described as
> that and inverting it meant something to me, it also introduced the
> principle of gravity being involved which I liked as buoyancy of
> offgas and superficial velocity are key to how it works.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I object to the attempts to assign a principle of operation, a lighting position, and a burn direction, to one particular implementation of it. Top lit refers to something lit on top. Updraft refers to the direction of air flow.
> 
> Yes but in saying that you miss my point, it is the combination of
> words that becomes  the common term.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It is inappropriate for promoters of TLUD pyrolysers to claim that the term does not/cannot be applied to other devices that are top lit updraft combustors.
> 
> So you say, others may differ, I don't worry either way.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We need another term for the moving fire front (if you will) that is descending through the fuel in a downwards migrating direction.
> 
> Well I'm happy with descending pyrolysis front in the case of
> describing these type of stoves. I think descending flaming pyrolysis
> front may be possible under very low rates of superficial velocity but
> that's another discussion.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> There is a rule on the internet that once a conversation has descended to the point that one party calls another a Nazi it is time to stop.
> 
> Again a wilful misinterpretation of what I was trying to get across.
> Godwin's law applies when a comparison is made of someone in the
> discussion. I was trying to illustrate  that certain word combinations
> are recognised as describing one thing and subsequently that
> combination is not used elsewhere. We can leave it at that, there is
> enough unkindness and hatred in this world for me to want to add to
> it, I don't mind people seeing me as socially inept but wouldn't
> deliberately offend anyone reading this list.
> 
> Andrew
> 
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