[Stoves] Chinese testing and Chinese stoves (was Re: "Those of us who believe that the WBT is critical to stove improvement")

[Crispin Pemberton-Pigott]

Dear N and P

One of the most interesting things to come out of the winter-long monitoring of IAQ, personal exposure, temperature and health in the Kyrgyzstan Pilot was the big difference (service factor) provided by a stove that used less fuel and kept the room 5 degrees C warmer.

The health impact of chronic seems to far outweigh the negative health effects of PM2.5, though that impact was pretty obvious as well.

I was in a meeting today and when it came to the negative health impacts of stoves someone chimed in with the obligatory 'especially it's affects on women and children. So it is worth noting that in rural poor families in Kyrgyzstan the men turned out to have higher smoke exposure than women or children.

My first maxim, as my students know, is "Never assume anything'.

Don't claim what was not measured. I wonder how fast we can hold to that standard.

Regards
Crispin in solitude in Almaty



Paul:

Yes, "A tack-hammer and a mallet and a sledge hammer are really the same in function (to hit things), but testing them probably should be differently appropriate for each type."

This goes back to my basic question - what is the service standard?

Or rather, in fact, what is a stove?

You might remember Tami raising a question about a year ago - how do you compare efficiencies for stoves that do separate tasks: cook only, heat only, cook and heat?

Users of biomass fires may add - lighting, mosquito avoidance, adding smokey taste.

As Crispin pointed out, "heating stoves" is a short-had for stoves that heat as well as cook. By the same token, cookstoves is short-hand for stoves that cook and heat (space).

Why, that heat can be a health risk. Which is why, over a year ago, a state government in India ordered that biomass cookstoves NOT be used during the times the sun is high (10 am to 5 pm or something).

Conversely, a housewife in New Delhi told me she liked electric induction stove in the summers because it had no flame and put out less heat around the stove.

Whose meals are cooked with some standard stoves with standard cooks and standard foods in standard homes and standard geographies, I wonder.

Nikhil


On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 3:30 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
I thank Crispin for writing:
The Chinese test is very simple and contains only one mathematical error (double counting the energy gained by the pot between 95 and 100 C).
Maybe more comments about that.  I saw their formula, and the word "simple" did not come to mind.

[Compared to other tests], the Chinese test which consistently produced higher values across the board. We find this very interesting. The Chinese test is intended for high mass stoves – certainly higher than the WBT’s typical targets which in China are called ‘Picnic Stoves’. The impact of the high mass is reflected in the Chinese result which credits simmering without no fire.
INTENDED FOR HIGH MASS STOVES.   This is another likely reason why the Chinese research on a TLUD stove with pellets gave such LOW (not high) results on efficiency.

VAST differences when stove types can be called "picnic stoves" (I really link that descriptor) and "(pick your descriptor that means heavy, not-portable, build-in-with-chimney, dual purpose heating-and-cooking, multi-hour-operational, and comparatively expensive) stoves."   BOTH types have their places.  A tack-hammer and a mallet and a sledge hammer are really the same in function (to hit things), but testing them probably should be differently appropriate for each type.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
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