[Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: Chinaandcookstoves]

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott crispinpigott at outlook.com
Tue Dec 26 13:59:58 CST 2017


Dear Ron

Acceptable results from a stove test, relating to char are:


  1.  Mass of char produced divided by the mass of fuel fed into the stove.
  2.  The energy in the char produced divided by the energy in the fuel fed into the stove.
  3.  The mass of recoverable portion of the char divided by the total mass of char produced.
  4.  The energy in recoverable char divided by the energy in the total char produced.
  5.  The ratio of the carbon mass in the total char produced to the total carbon mass in the fuel fed into the stove.
  6.  The ratio of the carbon mass in the recoverable char to the total carbon mass in the fuel fed into the stove.
  7.  The ratio of the carbon mass in the recoverable char to the total carbon mass in the char produced.


With respect to the energy efficiency, defined as fuel energy and work performed, producing char is not ‘work’, it is a byproduct of the work done (cooking).

If one wanted to report the fraction of energy not contained in the char produced that as made available to the cooking function, that would be a legitimate calculation.

Unfortunately the WBT does not do this. The ‘deduction’ is of an indeterminate fraction of the energy in the char produced: either included with the ash (an over-estimate as per WBT3.1) or an underestimate in the case of the tester recovering some portion of the total char and deducting the energy contained in it, either by estimation or measurement.

One cannot rate the performance of a stove for regulatory purposes based on estimations of an indeterminate fraction of something.

Comprehensive proposals have already been made for the determination of a two-stove cooking system which uses char produced as fuel in a second combustor. I realise this is not what you intend with your char-sequestering proposal, but others have enquired about how such stove-pairs would be rated.

The recent discussion about char produced in Indonesia would be a good example of supplying fuel in a two-stove system.

Regards
Crispin


Dear Ron,

« Sorry but this test procedure will give only bad answers whenever there is anything more than an insignificant amount of charcoal. »
What do you define as a « bad answer »? Do you have an example of the CSI giving a « bad answer »?

I thought there were no good or bad answers. Only valid or invalid ones.
Results are results. Should they be thrown away if they don’t go your way, if they don’t show your technology in a good light? Shouldn’t you rather be busy tweaking the technology rather than tweaking the results?

Best,

Xavier

De : Ronal W. Larson [mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net]
Envoyé : mercredi 20 décembre 2017 01:22
À : Discussion of biomass; Xavier Brandao
Cc : Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; kgharris
Objet : Re: [Stoves] Going back to 3-Stone Fire [Was Re: Chinaandcookstoves]

Xavier, list et al:

            Sorry but this test procedure will give only bad answers whenever there is anything more than an insignificant amount of charcoal.  The word charcoal is mentioned twice on p 6 - but no suggestion that it be measured.  (or maybe I didn’t skim carefully enough and you can tell me where to look.

            I’m surprised that there have been no updates since 2012.  Are you sure you sent me to the right place?

Ron


On Dec 19, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Xavier Brandao <xav.brandao at gmail.com<mailto:xav.brandao at gmail.com>> wrote:

« If not using something very much like the present WBT (similar duration, similar pot sizes, water quantity, etc), what do the opponents recommend? »
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