[Stoves] Differences in stove testing

Ronal W. Larson rongretlarson at comcast.net
Wed Feb 15 18:06:24 CST 2017


Dr.  Bond,  cc List and Dr. Chiang

	1.   Because I know you are looking for engineering precedence on the main equation in our dialog,  I should have provided the cites for the two books I mentioned in last night’s response, when I said:

>  ‘As I searched (more coming on the search) I found two (Google- free)  boiler books from around 1910 that have this equation. "


	My search was for “subtract efficiency efficiencies denominator"

They are:  
a.   On 3 pages as a part of a USGS annual document from 1907.  One can move around beyond the 3 pages that show up, without downloading the whole several hundred pages.  My search was for “denominator”;  one seems to be able to search for other terms:
 https://books.google.com/books?id=tTRGAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA137&lpg=RA1-PA137&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=5C3AgUSOP-&sig=440wVsdeLXYIxMvjrMRPHBSnklw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQghMAI#v=onepage&q=%20denominator&f=false <https://books.google.com/books?id=tTRGAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA137&lpg=RA1-PA137&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=5C3AgUSOP-&sig=440wVsdeLXYIxMvjrMRPHBSnklw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQghMAI#v=onepage&q= denominator&f=false>

b.  A book from 1915  Engineering Thermodynamics   By James Ambrose Moyer, James Park Calderwood    Again a page with the idea of subtraction shows up
   https://books.google.com/books?id=fElDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=A-tYLgv0zK&sig=ue-L88klNbAhsYOk4bqaJELW0IA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQg1MAk#v=onepage&q=subtract%20efficiency%20efficiencies%20denominator&f=false <https://books.google.com/books?id=fElDAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=A-tYLgv0zK&sig=ue-L88klNbAhsYOk4bqaJELW0IA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQg1MAk#v=onepage&q=subtract efficiency efficiencies denominator&f=false>

	My problem with these two is that I think you are looking for examples from other fields.  I have no doubt there are dozens of other books using this equation in the succeeding century.


	2.    Not mentioned last night, but I also found these:  

a.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15109753 <https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15109753>  on wheel chair efficiencies (2004), where the title says:  
Mechanical efficiency during hand–rim wheelchair propulsion: effects of base-line subtraction and power output

     I didn’t choose to pay to buy this one, but there is a (small?) chance it might have what we are looking for, given the word “subtraction”.. 

b). Again, not willing to buy a book,  but the idea of subtraction in the denominator seems to be present in the signal processing world
https://books.google.com/books?id=6invBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=HYgiFLLTi6&sig=uJxsCjDgj21PNaHdwfG45HRlKZc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=subtract%20efficiency%20efficiencies%20denominator&f=false <https://books.google.com/books?id=6invBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA224&lpg=PA224&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=HYgiFLLTi6&sig=uJxsCjDgj21PNaHdwfG45HRlKZc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=subtract efficiency efficiencies denominator&f=false>

c.  Also an expensive text (Exergy: Energy, Environment and Sustainable Development;   By Ibrahim Dincer, Marc A. Rosen)
where there is a subtraction in the denominator (p 253);  the University of Illinois may still be a main resource on Exergy (with an x - not Energy)
  https://books.google.com/books?id=FrUolHxhGVYC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA253&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=9Iml913d48&sig=vYovGRUnGhhhl1HrmwqR15xKghc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQgxMAg#v=onepage&q=subtract%20efficiency%20efficiencies%20denominator&f=false <https://books.google.com/books?id=FrUolHxhGVYC&pg=PA253&lpg=PA253&dq=subtract+efficiency+efficiencies+denominator&source=bl&ots=9Iml913d48&sig=vYovGRUnGhhhl1HrmwqR15xKghc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisqa3At4_SAhVolFQKHeapC5Y4ChDoAQgxMAg#v=onepage&q=subtract efficiency efficiencies denominator&f=false>


3.   I also found some possible benefit on talk on the differences between “efficiency” and “effectiveness” - with at least one author claiming the latter is to be preferred.  Maybe the “denominator equation” is effectiveness.   I do support the concept that it is accurately saying what the efficiency would have been without char.  I believe the actual inefficiency giving what I have called e1 and e2 is NOT as bad as this equation implies for the no-char case.  Stated alternatively, a char-making stove is inherently less wasteful than the no-char case.


So,  Tami,  I am not yet happy with any of these.   I am looking to justify the use of the “denominator equation” in a slightly different manner (still using the “denominator equation”  - but maybe this above will help a tad).  And possibly the above will bring others into this WBA search/justification topic for Tier allocation.

Again thanks for putting so much time into this.

Ron

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 11:52 PM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Drs. Chiang and Bond, cc List
> 
> 	I have had a lousy day ridding my computer of a virus  Among other things, I could not download this until a few hours ago:  http://www.pciaonline.org/files/ISO-IWA-Cookstoves.pdf <http://www.pciaonline.org/files/ISO-IWA-Cookstoves.pdf>.  

	<snip the rest to save bandwidth>

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