[Stoves] Off-topic: Time to shut off dripping drivel - mine or GACC's? (Re: Tom Miles)

[Paul Anderson]

Stovers,

These very recent messages, especially Crispin's critique of Nikhil and 
others comments, have touched many emotions.  Issues have been exposed, 
and questions raised.  But there are not yet answers. Differences have 
not yet been resolved, even if eventually there is only agreement to 
disagree.

HOWEVER, NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNLESS WE INSIST UPON WHAT TOM HAS STATED:
>
> GACC will be fully engaged at ETHOS in two weeks. Let’s discuss what 
> can be accomplished by the stoves community, including GACC. Health 
> impacts, fuels, stove designs, dissemination . . . Let’s be clear 
> about the needs for current and future programs, and what should change.
>
But that is NOT likely to happen at ETHOS unless ETHOS does something 
differently this year.   As an ETHOS participant since 2003, I know that 
discussions that are IN DEPTH and truly open do NOT occur often (if 
ever) at ETHOS.

GACC will "make presentations", but that is hardly being "fully 
engaged".  Sort of like reading a GACC annual report.  Attendees are 
told what the speakers want to tell.  There will be no "accounting" of 
the GACC budget.   And very little discussion because there is so little 
time.  And because attendees are truly polite and avoid confrontations.

There will be no resolution of issues about testing (even multiple 
multi-day meetings of Working Groups or Task Forces on the testing 
issues do not resolve the issues).   And ETHOS does not sit in judgement 
of GACC or any entity.

Real impact / change of GACC will be at ETHOS only if the GACC itself 
decides that some changes need to be made (and an announcement at ETHOS 
would be an appropriate action.)

However, as Tom wrote:
> Let’s discuss what can be accomplished by the stoves community, 
> including GACC. Health impacts, fuels, stove designs, dissemination . . .
AND
> Let’s be clear about the needs for current and future programs, and 
> what should change.
If that discussion happens, we all can be much happier about the future 
of stove solutions.  That is, ___IF___ such discussions happen.

For my part, I have the Saturday evening block, and I intend to lay out 
pathways for success in positive terms.   I have not yet seen how the 
GACC will significantly be of assistance, but I do have hope.   And open 
discussion will follow on Saturday evening, and into Sunday if necessary.

Yes, I am glad that I go to ETHOS every year.   Almost always I can 
detect only very small advancements.  Maybe this year will be better.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 1/14/2017 10:27 PM, Tom Miles wrote:
>
> I agree on the analysis and on the critical review. I invited Nikhil 
> to provide a critical perspective and I appreciate that he has been 
> working overtime at it. I do not agree that we need to beat up the 
> Clintons, PCIA, GACC (UN Foundation) and their predecessors with every 
> post. It’s a moot point. We have had opportunities to influence policy 
> going back to the PCIA. What’s important now is how we go forward, as 
> Crispin has outlined.
>
> GACC will be fully engaged at ETHOS in two weeks. Let’s discuss what 
> can be accomplished by the stoves community, including GACC. Health 
> impacts, fuels, stove designs, dissemination . . . Let’s be clear 
> about the needs for current and future programs, and what should change.
>
> *From:*Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On 
> Behalf Of *nari phaltan
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 14, 2017 6:20 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Cc:* miata98 at gmail.com
> *Subject:* SPAM: Re: [Stoves] Off-topic: Time to shut off dripping 
> drivel - mine or GACC's? (Re: Tom Miles)
>
> Dear Tom,
>
> I second what Todd Albi has written in his mail. Nikhil provides a 
> very detailed analysis (though he could put it more politely) about 
> lots of assumptions that we never question. From his and Crispin's 
> mail the GACC funding scenario is quite opaque and with very little 
> accountability.
>
> Emails are very easy to delete with a click if somebody does not like 
> them. But removing the opportunity for others to see and read what 
> people have to say is not very productive.
>
> All the best and belated Happy and Energetic New Year.
>
> Anil
>
>
> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
> P.O.Box 44
> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
> Ph:91-2166-220945/222842
> e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com <mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan at gmail.com>
> nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org <mailto:nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org>
>
> http://www.nariphaltan.org
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 3:05 AM, Todd Albi <todd.r.albi at gmail.com 
> <mailto:todd.r.albi at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Tom:
>
>     Nikhil has provided valuable input numerous times, like others on
>     this site.  I doubt any of the stove community embraces everything
>     posted here, /by anyone/.  Biomass is a black science, as well is
>     biochar, with numerous variables, politics, ego's, and other
>     agenda's involved.  Many of Nikhil's posts are spot on and raises
>     salient points.
>
>     So let's live and let live and let everyone have their say, even
>     if we are or are not in agreement.  The stove community members
>     are adults and can decide what information is of valuable, or not
>     of valuable.  Thanks for the list, but censorship is an
>     inappropriate response.
>
>     Todd Albi, SilverFire
>
>     www.silverfire.us <http://www.silverfire.us>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170114/1644f2d0/attachment.html>