[Stoves] Fuel qualities as the limiting factor and ETHOS

Mon Jan 30 19:01:29 CST 2017

Crispin,

Dale Andreatta has been working on this approach for the last year. We saw a
prototype last summer. Christa Roth and Paul Means did a nice job of
presenting Dale’s work which you will see in the ETHOS 2017 archives when
they get the presentations up.  

We had a very comprehensive ETHOS meeting this years. Just about everything
we have discussed here in the last several weeks was discussed at the
conference. There was a lot of discussion abut stoves contexts, user needs
and user choice, lab and field testing methods including the appropriate
uses, pros and cons of the WBT, modifications of the WBT, the CSI methods,
concerns about tier categories, etc. Much broader discussion than in some
years past.  Presentations were made by a wide variety of contributors
including, but not limited to, partners of the global alliance. Lots of
European, African and Asian participants. Many of the attendees and
presenters are on this list. 

Very good and complete presentations by participants in the global alliance
including Radha, Rainey and others. It was good to see extensive
documentation which grew out of the fuels working group that we convened in
preparation for the global alliance. All of the working groups of the ISO
task reported and responded. It is clear that all of the Is tasks are still
a work in progress and several will be issuing drafts for comment in the
next few months. There were open invitations from all groups for people to
participate in the process, even though there seem to be large numbers of
participants in each group. The communications task group has promised to
make information more broadly available. Once all these presentation are
online it would be useful to discuss them here in a constructive fashion. 

One interesting experiment by Richard Grinnell in Guatemala was to open an
improved cooking stoves store with 13-15 models to chose from. 5-6 are
available for consumers to test. Extensive marketing and advertising
including radio dramas and jingles.
https://www.facebook.com/estufasmejoradasymas/

Tom   

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 7:08 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fuel qualities as the limiting factor, and getting rid
of WBT (Was: Frank on helium surrogate)

Dear Frank

How is this: ‎the anthropologist comes from the field and tells you that the
community will not spend time preparing fuel, and you can only plan on
burning stick fuel. 

There is no problem attempting to sell a stove that needs novel fuel, or a
processing method. But if you are told from the start not to bother, they
will refuse to use it, it has to be treated as valuable information. 

When an industrial designer assess what to create, the customer sets the
parameters. Apple famously held that people don't know what they want yet,
they have to be told. Well stovers, a lot of cooks know what they want and
what they don't.  

I think that's a good place to start. The designer can optimise the fuel
chopping and sizing all they want: the community will refuse it.  

We can't work in isolation from the market. That's the point. 

Regards 

Crispin 

Dear Crispin, 

I agree with the stove designer/selector criteria for guiding the process
making a stove. But before taking it into the field I suggest it be tested
using the biomass available and biomass optimized for that stove. That to be
included in the instructions. I realize people are going to use the stove as
they wish. But knowing how to prepare the fuel for optimum performance is a
start. 

Preparing the fuel for stoves takes time and energy and may seem silly and
likely not going to be done. BUT if the fuel is the variable that now needs
control we will never get cleaner stoves until this is done - no matter what
stove they use. I think a process that sizes and dries, splits, chips -
whatever the available fuel before use is the best next step to cleaner
stoves. 

Frank 

On Jan 29, 2017, at 2:41 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com> > wrote:

Dear Frank

"If we don’t we are back to only the connected having the opportunity to
market their stoves and all other backyard tinsnips designs don’t have a
chance. Once that list is made you can add on all the additional
requirements you want. The stove passes or doesn’t make the second list."

I think we are cleverer than that. It is quite reasonable to set before a
stove designer/selector a set of 10 criteria of which half are hard science
numbers or ranges and the other half are soft science requirements. 

A good designer can then create or pick a few candidate‎ technologies for
verification and trials. 

The trials would be performed by experienced cooks and product reviewers
from the target community. Cecil wants it to go in stages of 'weeding' and
he wants it done before the technical evaluation. He often points out that
the most acceptable and widely adopted product may not be the ones with the
best technical specifications. 

That is why Toyota sells more cars than Lamborghini. 

Regards 

Crispin 

_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/

Thanks

Frank

Frank Shields

Gabilan Laboratory

Keith Day Company, Inc.

1091 Madison Lane

Salinas, CA  93907

(831) 246-0417 cell

(831) 771-0126 office

fShields at keithdaycompany.com <mailto:fShields at keithdaycompany.com> 

franke at cruzio.com <mailto:franke at cruzio.com> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170130/f97bd61c/attachment.html>