[Stoves] Dung cakes

[Nikhil Desai]

Frank:

Did you think I would make any claim about premature death without my
tongue firmly where it belongs?

Of course it is the volatiles. The deceit of "global public health" is in
the assumption of "equitoxicity" (with no justification other than that "we
don't know it to be otherwise", which is a lie) and in the use of spurious
dose-response functions.

For most of the cooking market we seem to be obsessed with -- poor rural
households in the developing world -- it is plainly impractical to regulate
"the chemical and physical structure of the biomass associated with a task".

Hence my suggestion to look at market segments where such regulation is
conceivable and worthwhile -- commercial food processing, crop drying, etc.

The problem begins with us -- in that we have not defined a problem we have
any prayer of solving.

Nikhil

------------------------

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
>
> 24 pieces of dung for $75 USD on Amazon! Growing up on the farm i was knee
> deep in money every morning and night and didn’t even know it.
>
> But my point I have been trying to make for years:
>
> Even if dung cakes in religious uses alone accounted for 10,000 premature
> deaths per year.
>
>
>
> Dung cakes (and all biomass fuels) do not cause premature death. It is the
> volatiles from heating the fuel and allowed to be in contact with people
> that cause the problem. It is the chemical and physical structure of the
> biomass associated with a task that we need to look at and regulate - not
> some ’name’ of biomass.
>
> Simple tests and spider diagrams I’m thinking will do this.
>
> Because this is the beginning (Box 1) nothing gets done until we do this -
> as we very well have seen. Outlawing dung will not solve the problem unless
> another is substituted that is clean. Studying air quality and premature
> death will do nothing to solve the problem. We need to work on the problem
> itself.
>
> regards
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Frank:
>
> This is the first time I have seen such data, and I am not able to locate
> the details supposedly at https://data.gov.in/catalog/variety-wise-daily-
> market-prices-data-firewood. I cannot open the XML files.
>
> The website says "The data refers to State-wise, market-wise, variety-wise
> prices of Firewood. It has the daily wholesale maximum price, minimum price
> and modal price. This dataset is generated through the AGMARKNET Portal (
> http://agmarknet.nic.in) which disseminates daily market information of
> various commodities."
>
> That is, no mention of charcoal or dung cakes.
>
> Now to your questions;
>
> a. Chips probably refers to wood waste from timber mills and construction,
> packaging enterprises. I have heard of different prices in my city for
> "firewood" (chopped branches and twigs) and such waste wood (don't remember
> the local word). In towns along the highway, I have seen 2-3 varieties of
> firewood -- depending on the thickness, perhaps tree type -- for sale
> during winter periods (for space heating). I have heard - not confirmed -
> that the most common trees are neem and mango. Occasionally another type of
> wood is also in the market - acacia.
>
> b. Dung cakes are usually from cattle (cow, buffalo) manure, mixed with
> dry grass or grain husks (rice I know of; unsure about other). For the most
> part, it is a home-based activity for families who own these animals. Horse
> manure might have been used decades ago, but there are no horses around any
> more. Nor do I know what commercial (large-scale, 20+ heads) dairies do
> with their manure. There are no energy specifications; sellers and buyers
> no longer know each other, but there is probably some consistency in size
> and mass.
>
> Because dung cakes are used in religious rituals - weddings, cremations -
> now there is even an upper-end online trade in such, including deliveries
> in US. See (if these links work)
>
> http://www.amazon.in/Haat-Gobar-upla-pieces-Completely/
> dp/B01LZO9OKZ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1497476941&sr=8-4&
> keywords=cow+dung+cakes+gobar+upla
>
> and for US
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Authentic-Angus-Cow-Dung-
> Patties/dp/B01A4UP1RC/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=
> 1497477017&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=cow+dung+cakes.
>
>
> If someone spreads the rumor in today's India that GACC is seeking to
> outlaw dungcakes, I can guarantee there will be a strong reaction from the
> new gau-goondas (literally, cow-goons). My Prime Minister believes in LPG
> promotion, but is a devotee of cows.
>
> Even if dung cakes in religious uses alone accounted for 10,000 premature
> deaths per year.
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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