[Stoves] How to make smokeless coal?

Mon May 22 16:35:33 CDT 2017

Dear Mr Nikhil

 I fail to see the connection between Indian Census and smokeless coal.
 Sorry if it came across like the aforementioned, but I am not trying to
make a connection. I am only giving stats of the usage of coal as a
domestic fuel in India.

I am flabbargasted that you dismiss these users as "slum-dwellers", surely
not a discovery from the Census.
My mistake.

Whoever told you that they will use your "smokeless coal"? Experts who sold
millions of smokeless chulhas?
The socio-economic impact of the solution to smokeless coal is beyond my
competence. Whether smokeless coal could be deployed or not we dont know.
Right now we are trying for a technical solution in the form of carbonised
coal which could be feasible.The technical solution is to identify the
appropriate de-volatilised coal with low emissions. Once we are
successful in it we will make sure it gets to the right people.

The moment you drive out the volatiles from coals, what you have left
behind is a fuel less useful to cooking as people have used it over the
years. Please prove me wrong. Is ten years enough?
I have come across many studies reporting of devolatalized/carbonised coal
used for domestic applications for cooking. It is so well documented that
it is a text book material now. Even today Coal India has domestic coke as
one of its products for sale.

 I venture a guess that such commercial customers' direct use of coals is
likely more polluting in terms of resultant exposures than the household
use by those you call "slum dwellers".
I beg to differ on that. Commercial customers like power plants have
control devices like electrostatic precipitator, fabric filters etc to
control pollution, whereas emissions from coal cook stoves are
uncontrolled. It is thus a major contributor to the overall degrading air
quality.

Regards
Darpan

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 11:40 PM, Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Darpan:
>
> Sorry, I fail to see the connection between Indian Census and smokeless
> coal.
>
> Coal as primary cooking fuel is mostly in Jharkhand, with some districts
> around coal and lignite mines around the country. I am flabbargasted that
> you dismiss these users as "slum-dwellers", surely not a discovery from the
> Census.
>
> Whoever told you that they will use your "smokeless coal"? Experts who
> sold millions of smokeless chulhas?
>
> The moment you drive out the volatiles from coals, what you have left
> behind is a fuel less useful to cooking as people have used it over the
> years.
>
> Please prove me wrong. Is ten years enough?
>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
> (India +91) 909 995 2080
> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 10:59 PM, Darpan Das <darpandasiitb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr Nikhil and All
>>
>> According to Census 2011 data of India, almost 250 million people use
>> solid fuel for cooking in India, out of which more than *3.5 million
>> people use coal as their primary fuel for cooking.  *
>>
>> Coal as a fuel is usually used for cooking by slum dwellers in coal
>> mining areas of India where it is available *'freely'*. Ubiquitous use
>> of coal based cook stoves contributes significantly to the ambient air
>> pollution of these region. Similar air pollution problem exists for several
>> other coal mining regions where similar cooking practices are prevalent.
>>
>> Several studies report the use of *carbonised coal as a smokeless fuel*
>> . Volatiles are an important contributor to the overall emissions in
>> stoves, and when removed by pre-processing (carbonisation), are claimed to
>> provide a “cleaner” fuel. Carbonisation of coal can be an immediate
>> strategy that can be incorporated in regions where coal is used for cooking
>> or heating purpose. Centralised facility of Coke oven batteries can be
>> installed in such regions for carbonising coal and provide smokeless fuel
>> to the target users.
>>
>> We are talking about region specific fuel and user practise which is
>> difficult to replace with smokeless dung, smokeless wood, smokeless
>> diesel or even LPG. Smokeless coal is the cheapest and the most immediate
>> solution to the problem.
>>
>> Thus 'smokeless coal'.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Darpan
>>
>> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could somebody please enlighten me on what the value of "smokeless coal"
>>> may be to whom?
>>>
>>> Why not also pursue smokeless dung, smokeless wood, smokeless diesel?
>>>
>>> Kirk Smith wouldn't bless any of them as "truly health protective" for
>>> household cooking.
>>>
>>> Nikhil
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nikhil Desai
>>> +91 909 995 2080 <+91%2090999%2052080>
>>> Skype: nikhildesai888
>>>
>>> > On May 22, 2017, at 3:13 AM, Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 20 May 2017 at 19:33, Darpan Das <darpandasiitb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Is carbonisation of coal the major step to make it a smokeless fuel
>>> >
>>> > I'm no expert but my take is yes and more below.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2) Is pyrolysis/carbonisation/ devolatalisation the same thing?
>>> >
>>> > Yes
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 3) Are volatiles the main reason for emissions from coal cook stoves?
>>> >
>>> > Not being able to completely burn these volatiles in the time the
>>> > molecules remain in the flame leads to Particles of Incomplete
>>> > Combustion leaving the flame, these are a mixture of soot and
>>> > Polycyclic Aromatic Compounds.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 4) How can i remove the volatiles?
>>> >
>>> > By heating up the coal in the absence of air
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 5) If I remove them then all the emissions will reduce?
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps but you will still have to burn the smokeless coal completely.
>>> > What will you do with the volatiles you have removed?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 6) How do I decide at what temperature should I carbonise?
>>> >
>>> > The higher the temperature then nearer the coal will get to be coke.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 7) Why is low temperature carbonisation of coal meant for domestic
>>> use and
>>> >> high temperature for metallurgical use?
>>> >
>>> > What do you mean by low temperature?
>>> >
>>> > The reason coke is made at a high temperature is so that it is nearly
>>> > pure carbon, domestic smokeless coal just needs the more volatile
>>> > substances removed but leaving higher tars in the coal to retain more
>>> > of the initial energy in the coal plus make it easier to light.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 8) Is the size of the coal not important factor to be taken into
>>> >> consideration when carbonising the coal?
>>> >
>>> > I don't know
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 9) Why is coke for domestic purpose also called semi-coke?
>>> >
>>> > Because it is only part way to being coke as the pyrolysis is at a
>>> > lower temperature (typically 650centigrade rahter than 1100c when
>>> > making producer gas.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 10) Coke obtained from Low temperature Carbonisation same as Semi
>>> Coke?
>>> >
>>> > Probably
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 11) What are the specification for quality assurance of the domestic
>>> coke
>>> >> products? Are there any standards?
>>> >
>>> > I would think there are bound to be but  I don't know them.
>>> >
>>> > There are similariiities between pyrolysis of coal and making charcoal
>>> > but the by products from coal are nastier.
>>> >
>>> > I suspect this is because the coal contains volatiles which are more
>>> > phenol (ring like carbon structures) like whereas wood has more chain
>>> > like structures and the lignin, which is phenol like structures are
>>> > not as complex so can burn out more completely without giving rise to
>>> > many PAHs, Also coal gives of amoniacal liquids and sulphur compounds.
>>> >
>>> > Andrew
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Stoves mailing list
>>> >
>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>> >
>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list
>>> s.bioenergylists.org
>>> >
>>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
>>> site:
>>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list
>>> s.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darpan Das
>> Research Scholar
>> IIT Bombay
>> India
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list
>> s.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_
> lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>

-- 
Darpan Das
Research Scholar
IIT Bombay
India
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170523/4a657da7/attachment.html>