[Stoves] Upright split-log burning and "Stealth fires" and TLUD camping fires ... was Re: How to make smokeless coal?

neiltm at uwclub.net neiltm at uwclub.net
Sat May 27 04:40:05 CDT 2017


On 26 May 2017 at 9:23, Paul Anderson wrote:

> >> PSA:  Everything Paal Wendelbo told me about the origins in Norway I
> have already written.   He did not elaborate more to me.   He did not use
> the term "stealth fire".   

No, but clearly that is what he described, and Baden Powell did use the 
term, but offers no evidence his was a TL fire.  When I looked the term 
up on youtube, I variously found fires lit in ventilated pits to hide the 
light from the fire at night presumably, but also very small thin dry 
twigs in a small stack that flared quickly making minimal smoke, and 
additional small fuel added at a rate that could be sustained without 
creating significant smoke, so that is also other peoples answer to 
Crispin's Q as to how I suppose it is done, that does not utilise top 
lighting. It quite surprised me to find unawareness of top lighting in 
specific instructibles for stealth fires.

> But I really like that term.   Note that it
> distinguishes a top lit fire that is in the open from a top lit fire that
> is in a container, which has become a gasifier device.  A gasifier means
> that the creation of the combustible gases occurs in a different place
> (different level) than does the burning of those gases.   
> 
> This distinction between a "stealth fire" (in the open) and a
> TLUD_GASIFIER _(in a container) is fundamental!!!!   

Yes, I appreciate that, having tried both.  We do 'stealth car camping', 
by which I mean mostly not using camp sites, and either sleeping in the 
reclining seats of a hire car when abroad, or in our car, home converted 
temporarily into a basic camper when closer to home, but wherever we 
aren't obviously going to be in anyones way and doing no harm, usually 
moving on early after a nights sleep.  All land is 'owned' by 
someone/some entity.  The TLUDs and even the kelly kettle, well fired, 
constitute good stealth equipment though.  We've never been challenged or 
encountered unfriendliness.  Both fit into cabin luggage only, with no 
problem carrying fuel or finding it at the other end.


> **************
> Neil wrote:
> We have heard the Norwegian resistance stealth fires
> story, which I found interesting in relation to Baden Powell who
> actually
> describes bunking off into the woods while at boarding school and
> lighting "stealth fires" and trapping and cooking rabbits, but then the
> top lit idea is entirely missing from 'Scouting for Boys', and its hard
> to imagine he would have known the technique but not shared it.
> **********************
> 
> About C:  TLUD gasifiers as camping stoves.
> Perhaps someone will do more study of "stealth fire".    But please do 
> NOT start calling TLUDs to be "stealth" devices.
> 

Well clearly they can be if you want to use them that way, and the 
Chinese stoves don't even call themselves TLUDs or instruct in any way 
their use, but they have that basic architecture and work well as TLUD.  
Not exclusively stealth devices obviously, and an unlikely use for the 
larger stoves.

> Note:  it is already known that when campgounds and parks prohibit "open
> fires" (therefore NO stealth fires are allowed, not even if in a 
> "campfire ring"), the TLUD stoves are "contained fires" and can probably
> be allowed (check with your local authorities) , along with propane/LPG 
> stoves and charcoal burners and alcohol stoves.
> 

If there is ambiguity, better perhaps to ask for forgiveness than 
permission, provided as you say you operate them safely.

> But for the visual benefits of seeing flames and having light from a 
> fire at a camping event,  a TLUD can far exceed the fire-light from LPG,
> alcohols and charcoal that show essentially no flames for 
> ambience.!!!!!   And if the TLUD is operated "rich" (much gases because 
> of primary air with relatively deficient secondary air), the visible 
> flame grows taller (seeking oxygen in the ambient air), and gives more 
> campfire-style light.   This is another topic for backpackers and 
> campers to experience and to tell us about.  ***** But always be careful
> with fire!!!     We want TLUDs to be welcome and acceptable at 
> campgrounds.!!!
> 
> Further note:  TLUDs as camping stoves do not send up sparks. TLUDs burn
> gases.  The "sparky" particles of traditional wood-burning are absent.  
> This is extremely important for the prevention of forest fires/ 
> grass-fires that are a danger from open campfires.
> 

In Scotland where free wild camping is a protected right in law I saw a 
poster encouraging responsible fire making, illustrating one of Tom's XL 
stoves!

> Paul

Best wishes,   Neil Taylor




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