[Stoves] "Stealth fires" and Wendelbo and TLUD history

Mon May 29 05:57:04 CDT 2017

Crispin:

I visited the Skłodowska home on 2/3 December 1989. (I am better with dates
than you seem to be.)

Did you see an old heating stove?

Here is what I  found in her daughter's description of Marie's life in
Paris as she came to Sorbonne:

"“All the rooms Marie was to inhabit were alike in discomfort and cheapness
of rent. The first was situated in a poorly furnished house where students,
doctors and officers of the neighbourhood garrison lived. Later on the
girl, in search of absolute calm, was to take an attic like a servant’s
room at the top of a middle-class house. For fifteen or twenty francs a
month she found a tiny nook which was lit from a loop-hole giving directly
on the slope of the roof. Through this skylight appeared a small square of
the sky. There was no heat, no lighting, no water… No service, of course :
even one hour of cleaning a day would have overweighed the expense side of
the budget. Transportation costs were suppressed : Marie went to the
Sorbonne on foot in all weathers. *Coal was kept down to a minimum : one or
two sacks of “lumps” for the winter*, which the girl brought from the
merchant on the corner and hoisted up the steep stairs herself to the sixth
floor, bucketful by bucketful, stopping at each floor to breathe. Lights
were at minimum : as soon as night fell, the student took refuge in that
blessed asylum called the Library of Sainte-Genevieve, where the gas was
lighted and it was warm. Seated at one of the big rectangular tables with
her head in her hands, a poor Polish girl could work until they closed the
doors at ten O’ clock. From then on all that was needed was *enough oil to
keep the light going* in her room until two in the morning. Then, with her
eyes reddened by fatigue, Marie left her books and threw herself on the
bed.”

That is how science was done.

Nowadays scientists have become economists. They assume rather than measure
or discover.

Economical with truth.

Nikhil

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nikhil Desai
(India +91) 909 995 2080
*Skype: nikhildesai888*

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 4:01 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> Thanks Paul
>
> Over-tired. So are several other people here in Warsaw. We are blundering
> around "out of time".
>
> Re the 1987 date, to get a product designed, tested and at least a few
> iterations, plus the development of a fuel supply sure took a year and a
> half.
>
> That puts the genesis of that stove earlier than the Spring of 1986, maybe.
>
> It is very likely that it was made from regular drum material by a
> 'duacali' ‎so it will have rusted away by now. We might find someone who
> made one...
>
> Regards
> Crispin in the home of Marie Curie
>
>
>
> Crispin,
>
> That is the third different year you have stated.   I will base my
> commnets on the 1987 date.
>
> The correction of the date means:
>
> 1.  1987 preceeds Wendelbo's stated 1988 start.   Therefore, it did not
> come from him.   An no realistic chance to have been influenced by Reed's
> work that stated in 1985.
>
> 2.  So it all boils down to you finding some evidence about what you saw
> in Kampala in 1987.   No evidence means it is only what you say you
> remember of what you think you saw 30 years ago, and that does not make it
> into the recorded history of what is now called TLUD technology.   Evidence
> please.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <(309)%20452-7072>
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 5/28/2017 3:58 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Sorry for my typo
>
> That should have read 1987 not 2007.
>
> Please re-read and re-interpret.
>
> The reason I know about it is I was in Kampala in 1987.
>
> Apologies for confusion
> Crispin
>
>
> *From: *Paul Anderson
> *Sent: *Sunday, May 28, 2017 03:35
> *To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Nolbert Muhumuza
> *Reply To: *Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] "Stealth fires" and Wendelbo and TLUD history
>
> Crispin, please clarify.
>
> 1. We agree that Wendelbo started in 1988 in Norway and was successful
> in northern Uganda in the mid to late 1990s.
>
> 2. So, anything in Kampala by 2007 is AFTER Wendelbo. So you cannot
> call that 2007 activity "predecessor technology." Any TLUD-style
> stoves in Kampala in 2007 could have sprung from Wendelbo's earlier work.
>
> 3. Please provde some (any) documentation about the 2007 stoves that
> you mention.
>
> 4. In 2009 the PCIA Forum was in Kampala. I was there and showed TLUD
> stoves (Champion style). Karsten Bechtel of CREEC was there, and from
> that interaction (with some kind words from Christa Roth, I am sure),
> the proposal for World Bank's BEIA funding was prepared for the TLUD
> project by CREEC (the first and only such funding for a TLUD project),
> with me as technical advisor, that gave rise to the Mwoto TLUD stove.
> The BEIA project ended in August 2012, and Awamu started in Sept and so
> did Mwoto Factories (with Awamu continuing still).
>
> 5. But never in those 2009 and later years did anyone in Kampala or on
> a listserv comment about some TLUD stoves in Kampala in 2007. Some sort
> of supportive evidence is requested. Such stoves COULD have been there
> (with probable roots traced to Wendelbo). But we need some support for
> your statement.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <(309)%20452-7072>
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 5/27/2017 1:04 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> > Dear Friends
> >
> > This is very clear as to date:
> >
> > "I began my serious work with stoves back in Norway in 1988 before my
> next employment started. I began utilizing the fire technology I learned
> during the war .‎"
> >
> > Interestingly, there was already established by Nov 1987 in Kampala a
> food cooking stove which was a TLUD burning vertically stacked bound
> bundles of reeds‎ in a cylindrical ombustion chamber. The commercial fuel
> supply chain was developed as well, not just a prototype prototype.
> >
> > The stove was mostly being used as a restaurant (commercial) cooking
> system. The charge of fuel was packed into the metal cylinder standing
> vertically and top-lit. It had secondary air ‎provided above the fuel.
> >
> > While I understand and appreciate the work Paal did, it is also fair to
> mention this predecessor technology and to search for those who developed
> it and the story of the non-woody fuel preparation‎. There is a great deal
> of biomass around Kampala in the form of reeds and bullrushes which served
> as the fuel source.
> >
> > Given that this system has all the elements of a 'modern' TLUD cooking
> stove I think it deserves a mention in the stove wiki, with a note asking
> people to locate additional information and perhaps a working sample.
> >
> > Regards
> > Crispin
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_
> lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_
> lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email addressstoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_
> lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170529/c6997245/attachment.html>