[Stoves] Headline story in Huffington Post (India)

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott crispinpigott at outlook.com
Wed Nov 15 14:09:47 CST 2017


Let’s combine the two sets of posts:

Paul, is there some agreement among users that biomass is a clean fuel, now that you have it making charcoal?

What do the users say about the cooking experience? Do they want larger and smaller sizes?

And finally, can the project survive and expand without the subsidy?

Thanks
Crispin


Crispin:

Re: your view "It is interesting that in the West, fuels are often talked about as ‘clean or dirty”":

This is a recent phenomenon. As late as 1979 in the OTA report The Direct Use of Coal, the discussion was about combustion science. Why, as late as late 1990s, we in the utility business talked about coal IGCC and various other technologies.

Ironically, it was George W. Bush whose dismissal of Kyoto - for reasons advanced by James Hansen, the godgrandfather of global warming - that gave the climate alarmists the excuse to polarize the environmental debate in terms of "clean energy" and "clean fuels". The UN apparatus called for "sustainable energy", with some ambivalence and ambiguity. By Obama period, environmental health ideologues manipulated data and methods enough to declare that coal was dirty no matter how it was combusted (though I think even Kirk Smith and one of his colleagues did declare that processed coal just might be good enough for heating stoves).

"Clean energy" of the imperial kind did no good to the poor. "Clean fuels" can - if includes gaseous fuels at least - and need not be non-fossil. But look at the current circus in Bonn; the American team gets derided for talking about cleaner combustion of fossil fuels and new nuclear technologies.

Exactly what James Hansen would have supported 20 years ago.

India did have a massive biodiesel program. Don't know what happened to it.  It has proposed elimination of kerosene subsidy, which means only that instead of rations, now anybody can buy any quantity in the open market. Kirk Smith was celebrating an Indian opinion writer who wrote in support of kerosene liberalization, but adamant that kerosene is a "dirty fuel". I think Indian public and technologists may prove him wrong. Those who are not reached by the LPG connection program -- about 75 million households - can use kerosene cookstoves, as they already are for commercial cooking in the hinterlands.

And why not kerosene stoves to compete with LPG, i.e., even with LPG subsidies, some cooking may still be done on kerosene? My family did that (both LPG and kerosene were subsidized, but that is just a part of the story).

"No stacking"?? No way!! Stack, stack, and stack. Make cooking worth while.

Nikhil


On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
Thanks Anil for making the point that a fuel is not inherently anything, dirty or clean, on its own.

It is interesting that in the West, fuels are often talked about as ‘clean or dirty” while in the East they are clear it is the combustion that is the proof. Perhaps in India they are ‘in between’ – partly confused, partly not.

If everyone already has kerosene or diesel available, and it is already subsidised, then what ne needed are more of the clean burning products, whether for light or heat, like Sujatha’s very clean burning kerosene ‘head’ or the kerosene stoves that one finds in South Africa and Japan.

Perhaps we should look at a few new products to produce in India using liquid fuels,. In principle a kerosene stove can be modified easily to become an ethanol stove.

Is jatropha oil produced in any meaningful quantity? Maybe Dr AD can answer that.

Thanks
Crispin

++++++++

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/dr-anil-k-rajvanshi/the-government-is-not-looking-at-practical-cost-effective-solutions-to-end-indoor-pollution-in-rural-homes_a_23262825/?utm_hp_ref=in-homepage<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.in%2Fdr-anil-k-rajvanshi%2Fthe-government-is-not-looking-at-practical-cost-effective-solutions-to-end-indoor-pollution-in-rural-homes_a_23262825%2F%3Futm_hp_ref%3Din-homepage&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C3f812770e4714322162608d52c49fa1c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636463618587151425&sdata=Z%2FjPPxDaEcYIvKjG%2B%2FX1LLuwyW0GoV7eCnWCvHTs3cE%3D&reserved=0>

Cheers.

Anil
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