[Stoves] About LPG and India. Re: [stove] Ujjwala explained

Mon Oct 2 23:26:15 CDT 2017

Stovers,

Kirk Smith has shared his latest book-chapter.   Links to it are below.

I make several comments, mostly with my focus on "solid biomass fuel 
stoves":

1.  The content about LPG fuel and stoves in India is quite worthwhile.  
The chapter is based on 8 solid peer-reviewed writings that are listed 
in the Endnotes (all written by Smith, often with co-authors.)   For 
that reason, much of what is in the book chapter is very similar to 
prevous writings.  So this chapter brings numerous segments together 
nicely.

2.  One paragraph (middle of the fourth page of the .pdf document) is 
about biomass stoves:   It says:

"None of  this [about LPG] has, however, affected the budget of the 
renewable energy ministry, which still runs the national biomass and 
biogas stove programs.  These programmes should still be encouraged,but 
perhaps now be better focused on the very poorest and more remote 
populations that will not be reached by LPG in the next decade." ...
*[That is an important concession that Smith clearly makes in many of 
his writings.  And he goes on to say.]*

..."These people would still benefit from more efficient stoves that at 
least lower pollution exposure to some extent."

[That is a nice concession, but it certainly is not very forceful. To 
say "... to some extent" could be a justification for mediocre ICS 
stoves.   Perhaps to let the poor folks have Tier 2 and Tier 3 stoves?
  And then he puts in the kicker, the comment to kill the truly clean 
burning biomass stoves:]

..."Unfortunately, however, no biomass stove on the market today is 
nearly as reliably clean  as gas fuels and, thus, cannot be proposed yet 
as a health measure if gas is available."

I do note the qualifier words  "... if gas is available."   The rest of 
the chapter says that LPG or PNG (piped natural gas) is coming.

But would Smith say that sentence without the final four words? Will he 
acknowledge that there are very clean burning stoves that burn biomass?

This is VERY recent writing, so it is interpreted as Kirk Smith's 
current positon about the Advanced Modern Clean  Cooking Solutions 
("MACCS") that include the Woodgas / Micro-gasifier stoves.

I do not want a fight.   I want Kirk Smith to openly and 
enthusiastically acknowledge the current existence and the increasing 
progress of VERY CLEAN burning biomass stoves.   I have recently written 
about the need for recognition of the clean burning biomass stoves, with 
copies reaching Smith and Dean  Still and GACC leaders who will be 
speaking at the coming GACC Forum.

Let's try to get this clarified beforehand so that we do not need to 
force discussion in the question and answer times at the Forum 
presentations.   Tht conversation is on-going at the Stoves Listserv.   
Please share this message with everyone.

************  Now back to the discussion of Smith's chapter. *************

3.   On page 5 of the .pdf file are these words relating to the sources 
and abundance of LPG:
".... will be used somewhere no matter what --- autos, petrochemicals, 
or being flared, are the other main uses besides households.  Why not 
ustilize as much as possible to the highest social value use --- cooking 
for the poor?"

Responses:
A.  Do not flare it.   That is pure waste.

B.  Use LPG for autos because biomass is nowhere close to being as good 
for vehicle fuel.   Unlimited demand for LPG as a vehicle fuel if the 
vehicles are equipped for LPG.  Distribution problems are reduced 
because the vehicles go the the distribution stations. But why might 
this not appeal?   One reason is that LPG would then compete with 
gasoline and diesel fuels, and that would be competition WITHIN the 
interests of Big Oil.   So, therefore, it is more  business if they 
direct LPG to the poor people.

C.  LPG is NOT financially friendly to poor people.  Yes, GIVE them an 
LPG stove and full tank, and then expect them to forever make payments 
for refills.   Not a bad deal for the oil marketing companies (OMCs), of 
which there are three big ones in India, with the Government of India  
(GoI) owning more than 50% of each.

D.  Sure the LPG and PNG are clean burning (the health arguement), but 
so are the MACCS that include biogas and alcohol and solar and electric 
and the "Woodgas from Biomass".   And of those, the Woodgas / gasifiers 
can actually use locally grown biomass of many types, precisely the same 
fuels that those poor families are currently using in their smoky stoves 
that are causing indoor and outdoor pollution.  Solid biomass is not a 
dirty fuel.  Fuels need to be in the correct stoves where they are 
cleanly combusted.

  4.  On page 7 of the .pdf document, Smith comments regarding getting 
the LPG into "...the poorest and remotest parts of the country... where 
the density of connections is lower than distributors have enjoyed up to 
now.  Use of women's self-help groups, rural cooperatives and other 
existing  ogranizaitons will be needed..."  THAT comment is equally 
valid (or even  more valid) regarding the introduction of the CLEAN 
BURNING biomass stoves.  And in those areas, the biomass fuels are 
local, and do not require trucks and then the manual carrying of metal 
LPG cylinders.

5.  On page 8, there is discussion of the government expenditure of US$ 
1.2 Billion for the PMUY programme for free LPG connections to 50 
million households.  "Indeed, it would seem that the programme can soon 
claim to be a social investment, not a subsidy.  Both come from the 
taxpayer, but the former has a much different connotation when focused 
on the poor."

The same could be said if the stoves were the clean burning gasifier 
stoves.  No, stop, wait.   it is not the same.   The biomass gasifiers 
can claim carbon credits and can actually PAY BACK the investment,   So 
the government might only be a guarantor of loans that will be paid back 
to lenders such as the Asian Develpment Bank.

Please note that carbon credits with gasifier stoves are ALREADY being 
earned in India (Deganga case study in West Bengal).   Without any money 
from the government (and therefore slower than it needs to be.).   Also, 
note that the gasifier stoves are in areas within reach of the LPG 
distribution activities and the free LPG equipment.   The people will 
decide what they want to use.

6.  Finally, I am NOT against the LPG / PMUY programme.   But I do want 
recognition and appropriate support (organizational and financial) for 
the expansion of the gasifier stove efforts in India.   Smith's chapter 
virtually ignores the viable alternative / co-solution offered by the 
gasifier cookstoves.   The issue is not about starting the gasifier 
efforts.   Efforts are already underway, with proven results.   The 
issue is to be supportive of the much more rapid expansion of those 
gasifier stove efforts.

May progress be made.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/27/2017 12:04 PM, Kirk Smith wrote:
>
> Below is the first para of Kirk R. Smith, 2017, /The Indian LPG 
> Programmes: Globally Pioneering Initiatives/, Chapter 5 in Bibek 
> Debroy & Ashok Malik, eds, _India at 70; Modi at 3.5 <mailto:Modi at 3.5>_,
>
> Wisdom Tree, New Delhi, 211 pp.
>
> The full chapter can be downloaded from the website at the bottom.
>
(and here: http://www.kirkrsmith.org/
or directly at: 
http://www.kirkrsmith.org/publications/2017/9/27/the-indian-lpg-programmes-globally-pioneering-initiatives 
)
<http://www.kirkrsmith.org/>
>
> Kirk R. Smith, MPH, PhD <krksmith at berkeley.edu 
> <mailto:krksmith at berkeley.edu>>
>
> Professor of Global Environmental Heath
>
> School of Public Health, University of California Berkeley and
>
> Collaborative Clean Air Policy Centre, India Habitat Centre, New Delhi
>
> Indian cell number: (91) 99-5873-8713;
>
> http://www.kirkrsmith.org/
>
If you are interested in receiving the messages directly from Kirk 
smith, you can subscribe to the group as I have done.
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "stove at lists.berkeley.edu" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to stove+unsubscribe at lists.berkeley.edu 
> <mailto:stove+unsubscribe at lists.berkeley.edu>.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20171002/81c9d8d6/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.png
Type: image/png
Size: 635475 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20171002/81c9d8d6/attachment.png>