[Stoves] Follow-up about clean biomass fuels

Tue Oct 10 07:52:42 CDT 2017

Frank,

Thanks for that excellent comment.   I / we must more carefully "define" 
the biomass because there are so many types and formats. For the side of 
caution, the most uniform and least controverial fuel is wood pellets.   
Then comes wood chips/small chunks.    And some (sawdust) need to be 
excluded from TLUD fuels.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 10/10/2017 12:22 AM, Frank Shields wrote:
> Dear Paul,
>
> A difference with biomass stoves as compared with LPG and Coal stoves 
> is that both LPG and Coal fuels are well tested and delivered knowing 
> the quality and, also, how they are to be delivered to the combustion 
> chamber. Such that anywhere they are used the results will be the same.
>
> But biomass is still all over the map as to quality. You cannot say 
> your stove burns clean. Because you do not say (and we have not 
> provided you) the information that is needed for you to say that. Fill 
> your stove with sawdust and how will that burn? or damp wood? If you 
> can get your TLUD to burn clean and you specify the requirements for 
> the fuel and the requirements for delivery of that fuel to the 
> combustion chamber (packing in your case) then you can say it burns 
> clean because it will burn clean every time and anyplace you take it.
>
> The reason we can't provide you the info you need is because we have 
> been misdirected time and time again. First the WBT and the poor 
> method design. Then we have spent ten years arguing over the 
> calculations. Then we find we need to calculate in the left over fuel 
> that will be reused - even though we haven’t yet got the primary fuel 
> requirements. Then we are cleaning air and not completing tasks. And 
> now were wondering what to do next!
>
> All we can say is “Our stoves burn clean too” (under the right 
> conditions).
>
> If you take a tin can about the same size as your combustion chamber 
> and pack it with wild biomass that you know works very well and send 
> it to me I will run a package of tests.  I am thinking these tests 
> will be a good start for our testing program. I don’t have all the 
> equipment I would like but have most. Then you can include the results 
> of the fuel requirements and packing info needed to have a clean 
> operation every time - like the LPG and Coal people. Of course this 
> will be one point and best to have a range and that requires a lot of 
> testing and a group working on it. Most likely University scale 
> testing. You will still have the first wild biomass stove that can be 
> said to burn clean.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Oct 9, 2017, at 5:54 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu 
>> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Nikhil, Ron, Crispin and others,
>>
>> On 10/9/2017 12:20 PM, Nikhil Desai wrote:
>>> Paul:
>>>
>>> I think a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Wood" is a great idea.
>> Change that to   "Declaration  of Clean Cooking with Woodgas" .    My 
>> goal is that the TLUD stoves with wood fuel are fairly recognized as 
>> being  worthy of being among the Modern Advanced Clean Cooking 
>> Soluton (MACCS), as in the "Classification...." that is based on GACC 
>> and ESMAP  determinations.
>>
>> I am not inclined to do what you advocate in your next sentence:
>>> A broader, more emphatic claim needs to be made that improving 
>>> combustion of solid fuels is possible, has a long history, just that 
>>> adapting the principles to particular contexts takes time and that 
>>> there are many other possibilities for biomass energy for 
>>> small-scale thermal applications - BESSTA?
>> Too many variables.   Too many conflicting claims.   Too many reasons 
>> why direct burning of solids (in contrast to the TLUD burning of 
>> GASES FROM SOLIDS) has not been fruitful.
>>
>> I do not try to knock any other biomass stoves (the "ICS" devices) 
>> from being considered, but I cannnot bring along in some overly broad 
>> declaration all of the ICS devices and their decades of baggage.  But 
>> we (the solid dry biomass fuels users) need to have at least ONE that 
>> is accepted, to stop the blanket rejection of ALL wood and other dry 
>> biomass fuel.   And that one with the best chances is the TLUD 
>> technology.
>>
>> In the end, what will count is when there are actual success stories 
>> of major acceptance of TLUD (or some other biomass-fueled) stoves.   
>> And that is happening NOW in West Bengal, and will be reported at the 
>> GACC. Will anybody recognize such accomplishments?   I do  not 
>> know.   But a "Declaration....." can  have many signatures, but it 
>> would have minimal impact if the "leadership" continues to ignore the 
>> solid results IN ACTUAL HOUSEHOLDS.
>>
>> In contrast to success in the field, results like a declaration ON 
>> PAPER are easily ignored, just like any paper that declares Tier 4 
>> results.
>>
>> I am busy with other preparations for the GACC Forum. I will assist 
>> if someone else decides to make a "Declaration..."
>>
>> Paul
>>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website:www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>
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>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> Frank Shields
> Gabilan Laboratory
> Keith Day Company, Inc.
> 1091 Madison Lane
> Salinas, CA  93907
> (831) 246-0417 cell
> (831) 771-0126 office
>
> franke at cruzio.com <mailto:franke at cruzio.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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