[Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Sun Oct 22 21:33:25 CDT 2017
Nikhil,
I will tey to find Rachel Kyte.
You are the secpnd person to officially add his/her name to the
Declaration, the first one being me because I wrote it. I am glad to
now use the plural that "we" declare.
All should note that this is a Declaration by individutals and entities
that decide on their own to declare or not to declare. This is not a
Resolution that requires some vote. If the GACC or others would want
to make a resolution, that would be fine with me. And I (correction,
WE) will help with the wording.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 10/22/2017 2:34 PM, Nikhil Desai wrote:
> Paul:
>
> I think Rachel Kyte should be the first one to sign this.
>
> Indeed, a "most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for
> being accomplished with honorable expedience."
>
> It will take a lot, and will have many pitfalls along the way. But on
> balance, it is less risky than leaving the poor to gas, electricity,
> and choice between fuel and food. Cooking technologies will not
> alleviate poverty as such, but people with access to "free" or
> low-cost solid biomass are more likely to appreciate the security of
> local fuels, in many contexts.
>
> I hereby request to add my name to the list of signatories (or not; I
> leave you to judge if and when appropriate).
>
> And hope to continue discussions . Light at the end doesn't mean the
> tunnel is short or that mines are not laid along the way.
>
> Nikhil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
> (US +1) 202 568 5831
> /Skype: nikhildesai888/
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Anil and A.D.,
>
> Yes, I refer to the SMALL gasifiers (micro-gasifiers) that make
> woodgas. There are many gases and variations of gases that can
> come from wood and other biomass. The key is in the
> close-coupled combustion (centimeters and seconds of time),
> meaning combustion INSIDE the device where the pyrolytica woodgas
> is produced.
>
> I am in Delhi now. Pre-Forum tomorrow (Monday).
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone:+1-309-452-7072 <tel:%28309%29%20452-7072>
> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
> On 10/21/2017 5:51 AM, Anand Karve wrote:
>> Dear Paul,
>> I assume that you meant to use the TLUD technology when you
>> mentioned using wood gas as cooking fuel. If you are thinking of
>> producing the wood gas in one place and burning it in a stove
>> kept some distance away, I must agree with Anil that it would be
>> dangerous to use it in a closely confined and ill ventilated place.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>
>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com
>> <http://www.samuchit.com>)
>>
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
>> Institute (ARTI)
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:58 AM, nari phaltan
>> <nariphaltan at gmail.com <mailto:nariphaltan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Paul. We used producer gas for cooking in late 90s quite a
>> lot for producing syrup from sweet sorghum. The details are
>> at; www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf
>> <http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf> together with photos.
>>
>> Wood gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but dangerous since
>> it is a mixture of CO and H2. If not used with proper
>> ventilation it can be lethal. In closed house environments it
>> is not advisable to use it.
>>
>> Anil
>>
>>
>> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
>> P.O.Box 44
>> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
>> Ph:+91-9168937964 <tel:+91%2091689%2037964>
>> e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
>> <mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org <mailto:nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org>
>>
>> http://www.nariphaltan.org
>>
>> http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/
>> <http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/> Awards for NARI staff
>> http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/
>> <http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/> NARI in press
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Paul Anderson
>> <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> Crispin,
>> Thanks for the good comments.
>>
>> Many details will be eventually ironed out. Much will
>> depend on the response from the many many participants.
>> You wrote:
>>
>> This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to
>> create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.
>>
>> Is there really much clash between Big Gas and Big Oil?
>> Wood is already BIG, but not big in the organized way and
>> it is being burned poorly. Maybe it should become Big
>> Biomass (more encompassing) IN RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD
>> ENERGY. The pellet-fuel companies would be part.
>>
>> The strength (and weakness) of Big Biomass (as fuel) is
>> that it is so dispersed and is found almost everywhere.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>>
>> On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> I appreciate that you are on the right track.
>>
>> I know it is not absolute in the same manner, but
>> could you say, "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"?
>>
>> I am concerned that you correct say in the beginning
>> that no fuel is clean on its own, an opinion shared
>> widely, because it depends on how you burn it.
>>
>> Then it says further down that woodgas is a clean
>> fuel, without the qualification contained in the
>> earlier statement.
>>
>> Would you be better off saying something that
>> undermines the incorrect notion that 'there are clean
>> fuels and dirty fuels' and reinforces what is true:
>> that ways and means exist to burn fuels cleanly and
>> they should be used.
>>
>> I am not all that happy with "Woodgas can be a clean
>> fuel too" because without context it is basically
>> bandwagonning behind a dead horse. Like the WBT low
>> power metrics, it has to be dragged off to the glue
>> factory.
>>
>> No fuel is inherently clean by all definitions. Not
>> even woodgas. How far can you take on the problem of
>> the misrepresentation of scientific truth, while
>> still pointing out that woodgas can be created and
>> burned very cleanly, by any definition?
>>
>> I guarantee that those intending to profit from the
>> misrepresentation will not help you. This is Big Gas
>> against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood
>> and straighten both of them out.
>>
>> Regards
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stoves
>> [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] On
>> Behalf Of Paul Anderson
>> Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16
>> To: Doc Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
>> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
>> Subject: [Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas
>>
>> Stovers, Charists, and all,
>>
>> I have prepared a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with
>> Woodgas" for everyone's consideration. A copy of
>> the version as of today's date
>> 2017-10-19 is attached, or you can get it at
>> https://woodgas.com/declaration/
>> <https://woodgas.com/declaration/> where any
>> revisions will be available. Therefore, there is
>> still time for your comments to be considered. This
>> is now available several days before the start of the
>> 2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I will be attending
>> and will hear some feedback about this "Woodgas
>> Declaration."
>>
>> The bulk of the page has the justification
>> statements: "Whereas ......." (10 of them.) And
>> based on the truth of those statements, then comes
>> the declarations:
>>
>> "now, therefore be it
>> DECLARED ...... that:
>> 1. there are no "clean fuels" per se, but they can be
>> “clean” (by definitions that are subject to
>> discussion) only when properly combusted in
>> appropriate, specialized combustion devices (burners
>> and stoves), and fuels by themselves are neither
>> clean nor dirty;
>>
>> 2. woodgas is a clean fuel when appropriate
>> micro-gasifiers with designated solid fuels are used
>> by adequately-experienced cookstove users;
>>
>> 3. woodgas has the potential to reach hundreds of
>> millions of households to provide cleaner cooking
>> while using smaller quantities of their current,
>> locally-available fuel supplies, and all with
>> sustainable financing, reduced expenditures, and even
>> potential net profit;
>>
>> 4. leaders, authorities and all parties interested in
>> clean cookstoves should recognize in words, writings,
>> actions and financial support that solid biomass can
>> become a very clean-burning fuel for cooking in
>> woodgas stoves for millions of households; and
>>
>> 5. the expression “Woodgas is a Clean Fuel” is more
>> than a motto, and it should be a guiding principle
>> for prompt actions to assist at least one billion of
>> the most underserved people on Earth, this being a
>> most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects
>> for being accomplished with honorable expedience. "
>>
>> Please participate in the discussions. I start my
>> trip to India early on Saturday, so please discuss
>> without expecting me to make replies promptly.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> --
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>>
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>
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