[Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas
Ronal W. Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Mon Oct 23 16:23:57 CDT 2017
PAUL, CC LIST AND NIKHIL:
I am handicapped as I write this - as I also am away from home. Please include me as a signee.
But I feel you have left out several of the most important aspects of TLUDs. Foremost is that such stoves can earn (more than save) money for the users. Using the phrase “Terra Preta” can prove the out-year benefits of placing char in soil. And saving time while the stove is in operation. And being able to use leaves and very small biomass.
Your emphasizing the health benefits of TLUDs is very important- but we can also support solar cookers, which when combined with TLUDs (why should they not choose TLUDs as their needed backup?) would be the absolute cleanest of all fuel choices. And we can knock the negative carbon-climate-related health aspects of LPG (in a “whereas”).
Ron
> On Oct 22, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> Nikhil,
>
> I will tey to find Rachel Kyte.
>
> You are the secpnd person to officially add his/her name to the Declaration, the first one being me because I wrote it. I am glad to now use the plural that "we" declare.
>
> All should note that this is a Declaration by individutals and entities that decide on their own to declare or not to declare. This is not a Resolution that requires some vote. If the GACC or others would want to make a resolution, that would be fine with me. And I (correction, WE) will help with the wording.
>
> Paul
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
> On 10/22/2017 2:34 PM, Nikhil Desai wrote:
>> Paul:
>>
>> I think Rachel Kyte should be the first one to sign this.
>>
>> Indeed, a "most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for being accomplished with honorable expedience."
>>
>> It will take a lot, and will have many pitfalls along the way. But on balance, it is less risky than leaving the poor to gas, electricity, and choice between fuel and food. Cooking technologies will not alleviate poverty as such, but people with access to "free" or low-cost solid biomass are more likely to appreciate the security of local fuels, in many contexts.
>>
>> I hereby request to add my name to the list of signatories (or not; I leave you to judge if and when appropriate).
>>
>> And hope to continue discussions . Light at the end doesn't mean the tunnel is short or that mines are not laid along the way.
>>
>> Nikhil
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nikhil Desai
>> (US +1) 202 568 5831
>> Skype: nikhildesai888
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>> Dear Anil and A.D.,
>>
>> Yes, I refer to the SMALL gasifiers (micro-gasifiers) that make woodgas. There are many gases and variations of gases that can come from wood and other biomass. The key is in the close-coupled combustion (centimeters and seconds of time), meaning combustion INSIDE the device where the pyrolytica woodgas is produced.
>>
>> I am in Delhi now. Pre-Forum tomorrow (Monday).
>>
>> Paul
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%28309%29%20452-7072>
>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>> On 10/21/2017 5:51 AM, Anand Karve wrote:
>>> Dear Paul,
>>> I assume that you meant to use the TLUD technology when you mentioned using wood gas as cooking fuel. If you are thinking of producing the wood gas in one place and burning it in a stove kept some distance away, I must agree with Anil that it would be dangerous to use it in a closely confined and ill ventilated place.
>>> Yours
>>> A.D.Karve
>>>
>>>
>>> ***
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>
>>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com <http://www.samuchit.com/>)
>>>
>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:58 AM, nari phaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com <mailto:nariphaltan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Paul. We used producer gas for cooking in late 90s quite a lot for producing syrup from sweet sorghum. The details are at; www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf <http://www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf> together with photos.
>>>
>>> Wood gas (producer gas) is a clean fuel but dangerous since it is a mixture of CO and H2. If not used with proper ventilation it can be lethal. In closed house environments it is not advisable to use it.
>>>
>>> Anil
>>>
>>>
>>> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
>>> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
>>> P.O.Box 44
>>> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
>>> Ph:+91-9168937964 <tel:+91%2091689%2037964>
>>> e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com <mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org <mailto:nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org>
>>>
>>> http://www.nariphaltan.org <http://www.nariphaltan.org/>
>>>
>>> http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/ <http://nariphaltan.org/about-2/awards/> Awards for NARI staff
>>> http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/ <http://nariphaltan.org/nari-in-press/> NARI in press
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>>> Crispin,
>>> Thanks for the good comments.
>>>
>>> Many details will be eventually ironed out. Much will depend on the response from the many many participants. You wrote:
>>> This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.
>>> Is there really much clash between Big Gas and Big Oil? Wood is already BIG, but not big in the organized way and it is being burned poorly. Maybe it should become Big Biomass (more encompassing) IN RELATION TO HOUSEHOLD ENERGY. The pellet-fuel companies would be part.
>>>
>>> The strength (and weakness) of Big Biomass (as fuel) is that it is so dispersed and is found almost everywhere.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>>>
>>> On 10/20/2017 9:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>> Dear Paul
>>>
>>> I appreciate that you are on the right track.
>>>
>>> I know it is not absolute in the same manner, but could you say, "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too"?
>>>
>>> I am concerned that you correct say in the beginning that no fuel is clean on its own, an opinion shared widely, because it depends on how you burn it.
>>>
>>> Then it says further down that woodgas is a clean fuel, without the qualification contained in the earlier statement.
>>>
>>> Would you be better off saying something that undermines the incorrect notion that 'there are clean fuels and dirty fuels' and reinforces what is true: that ways and means exist to burn fuels cleanly and they should be used.
>>>
>>> I am not all that happy with "Woodgas can be a clean fuel too" because without context it is basically bandwagonning behind a dead horse. Like the WBT low power metrics, it has to be dragged off to the glue factory.
>>>
>>> No fuel is inherently clean by all definitions. Not even woodgas. How far can you take on the problem of the misrepresentation of scientific truth, while still pointing out that woodgas can be created and burned very cleanly, by any definition?
>>>
>>> I guarantee that those intending to profit from the misrepresentation will not help you. This is Big Gas against Big Oil. Perhaps you need to create Big Wood and straighten both of them out.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Crispin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson
>>> Sent: 19-Oct-17 22:16
>>> To: Doc Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
>>> Subject: [Stoves] Declaration about Woodgas
>>>
>>> Stovers, Charists, and all,
>>>
>>> I have prepared a "Declaration of Clean Cooking with Woodgas" for everyone's consideration. A copy of the version as of today's date
>>> 2017-10-19 is attached, or you can get it at https://woodgas.com/declaration/ <https://woodgas.com/declaration/> where any revisions will be available. Therefore, there is still time for your comments to be considered. This is now available several days before the start of the
>>> 2017 GACC Forum in Delhi, which I will be attending and will hear some feedback about this "Woodgas Declaration."
>>>
>>> The bulk of the page has the justification statements: "Whereas ......." (10 of them.) And based on the truth of those statements, then comes the declarations:
>>>
>>> "now, therefore be it
>>> DECLARED ...... that:
>>> 1. there are no "clean fuels" per se, but they can be “clean” (by definitions that are subject to discussion) only when properly combusted in appropriate, specialized combustion devices (burners and stoves), and fuels by themselves are neither clean nor dirty;
>>>
>>> 2. woodgas is a clean fuel when appropriate micro-gasifiers with designated solid fuels are used by adequately-experienced cookstove users;
>>>
>>> 3. woodgas has the potential to reach hundreds of millions of households to provide cleaner cooking while using smaller quantities of their current, locally-available fuel supplies, and all with sustainable financing, reduced expenditures, and even potential net profit;
>>>
>>> 4. leaders, authorities and all parties interested in clean cookstoves should recognize in words, writings, actions and financial support that solid biomass can become a very clean-burning fuel for cooking in woodgas stoves for millions of households; and
>>>
>>> 5. the expression “Woodgas is a Clean Fuel” is more than a motto, and it should be a guiding principle for prompt actions to assist at least one billion of the most underserved people on Earth, this being a most worthy goal that also has realistic prospects for being accomplished with honorable expedience. "
>>>
>>> Please participate in the discussions. I start my trip to India early on Saturday, so please discuss without expecting me to make replies promptly.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> --
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072 <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
>>>
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>>
>>
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