[Stoves] Is this Off Topic?? Fwd: Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown

[Paul Anderson]

With apologies to all Stovers (including Crispin),

___ I ____ am stopping this topic on the Stoves Listserv.   No further 
reply.

Paul


Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/12/2017 10:08 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Paul
>
>
>           1. eschatology (n.)
>
>     the branch of theology that is concerned with such final things as
>     death and Last Judgment; Heaven and Hell; the ultimate destiny of
>     humankind
>
> >Very appropriate choice of words as atmospheric CO2 levels rise and 
> could well contribute to (what you wrote):.
>
>       to turn the whole planet into a verdant garden‎ of delight.
>
> >But probably not "delight".   More like a "hothouse garden eventually 
> supporting less than half the number of the world's current population"
>
> It is that sort of catastrophism which is the natural driver of the 
> eschatological doom-mongers striving to make money from people’s 
> ignorance of their own planet. Good grief, people in the future are 
> going to laugh at our gullibility. Even if it were true, that Western 
> industrial society causes hot/cold, rain/drought, deserts/swamps, why 
> is it the problem of the world’s poor to solve it?
>
> >(which means the end of standards of living as known today, but 
> maninly suffered through environmental disruption, war, famine and 
> disease inflicted on our descendants, unless drawdown is accomplished.)
>
> I think that is speculative gibberish. As anyone know who follows this 
> matter closely, the entire edifice of climate catastrophism is built 
> upon the projections of computer models which have been, repeatedly 
> and completely, proven to have no skill at all in predicting anything.
>
> This stands quite apart from people predicting (saying), “cooking 
> stoves increase atmospheric CO2 and that will lead to expanding 
> deserts and starvation…” (etc) while 5 minutes later saying that 
> stoves create snow and ice by the same mechanism.  If you claim that 
> anything that is possible to happen is caused by witches, then when 
> something happens, it is proof that it was witches behind the whole 
> thing.
>
> Did you know there is a better correlation between the global 
> temperature and the number of pirates than the concentration of CO2?
>
>
> >Your implied comparison between opinions by contemporaries of witches 
> in the 1600s and current opinions of scientists in the 2000s is a bit 
> of a streach.    I'll interprete that as an attempt at humor. :-)
>
> It was not an implied comparison – it is a perfect example. Read the 
> letter from the Pope to Germany about the hurricanes they were 
> experience as the Earth cooled in the 1600’s. Terrible storms and 
> famines. He said they are fully aware that the weather is controlled 
> by witches and yet you tolerate them in every community. They 
> responded by ‘identifying’ then burning 2500 of them in only three 
> German provinces. Each day that passed without a major storm was proof 
> that the ‘cure’ was effective, supporting the consensus that the 
> weather is controlled by witches.  Bad weather, on the other hand 
> proved, each time, that there was still more witches to be outed and 
> burned, further confirming the consensus.
>
> Stoves and Health:
>
> Compare the claims for ‘health benefits’ of three stoves and health 
> studies being conducted right now by Fresh Air (Netherlands). The one 
> in Kyrgyzstan (which I have reported on previously) shows clearly that 
> when on has a poorly constructed, badly burning stove (whatever the 
> fuel) that leaks a significant fraction of emissions into the home 
> either all the time or when it is opened for use and refueling, and 
> replaces it with a really good and properly installed stove, there are 
> immediate, statistically significant improvements in health. In the 
> other locations the evidence is far less conclusive because of 
> confounding factors.
>
> Before the Kyrgyzstan study, where was the proof that stoves can 
> improve health, and by how much? Was there quantification of 
> emissions, concentrations, exposure and consequences?  It is at least 
> /possible/ to appeal to ‘science’ and ‘data’ on this matter, but it is 
> not possible to do that with aDALY’s because they are science fiction, 
> and a very important part of the current conversation about 
> performance and forecasting possible impact.
>
> If ‘drawdown’ can achieve a cooler, drier, stormier, increasingly 
> desertified world with slower growing plants and shorter growing 
> seasons, it will be ‘magic’ if it can support more people in better 
> conditions. I do not yet believe in magic.
>
> You don’t have to invoke the End Times in order to sell TLUD’s that 
> cook well and make charcoal. Just get on with it.
>
> Eschatologically yours*
>
> Crispin
>
>
> (Cribbed from the heading notes of the song "/We Will All Go Together 
> When We Go/" by Tom Lehrer)
>
>
>
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