[Stoves] stoves and credits again

[Paul Anderson]

Ron,      (and to Frank regarding his comment presented at the end)

On 9/22/2017 7:53 PM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>> [Anderson wrote:     Crispin and I have long ago come to agreement 
>> that energy efficiency is not the same as fuel efficiency.
>
> *[RWL:  I do not know how to interpret this.  Can you or Crispin 
> express this statement in equation terms?
> *

No.  When dealing with two different concepts (energy viewed as MJ and 
fuel viewed as tree or piece of wood) that each have different 
parameters for being evaluated, writing an equation that reflects only 
one shared parameter or variabled (in this case it is units of energy) 
will not carry forward the other important parameters (such as the other 
uses of pieces of  wood or the need -- or not need -- to protect forests 
in different environments.)  One of those other parameters is the "value 
of charcoal" which canNOT be ONLY expressed in terms of energy content.

$ value of MJ does NOT equal the $ value of wood (trees) with equivalent 
number of MJ.

$ value of charcoal does NOT equal the $ value of MJ / 3 (assuming 2/3 
of the MJ are being lost when the charcoal is made).

Crispin and I stopped agrueing  about this  a long time ago.   The 
concepst of fuel and energy are different.   And this becomes much more 
evident when discussing "char-making stoves" where there is a useful 
by-product (or co-product), and not just buring all the way to ashes.

For eons of time, combustion science has as part of its mission the 
extraction of as much energy as possible from whatever might be the 
"fuel" (immediate source of the energy).   But it happens that the 
simple Migratory Pyrolytic Front (MPF) that occures in TLUD stoves makes 
charcoal  in a batch mode, mainly without consuming much of the 
created.   Regular fires are consuming the charcoal during the standard 
burning processes.

Energy in Wood fuel = the Energy in the Pyrolytic Gases  +  the Energy 
in Created charcoal.

I like the comment from Frank earlier today:
> The other side of the coin is the total carbon going to the secondary 
> [combustion should be used when] determining the efficiency of that 
> energy being used for the task.

I think Frank is saying that the "energy efficiency" of a TLUD stove 
should be measured in relation  to the energy in the pyrolytic gases.   
And that means leaving aside the charcoal for separate discussion.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20170923/9a516fa7/attachment.html>