[Stoves] Fwd: RE: Explaination of downdraft in TLUD updraft stoves ---was--Re: Mis-information
Ronal W. Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sun Apr 1 23:50:54 CDT 2018
Alex and list
Apologies for the length and for keeping all I found. I decided to not just report on the best. If anyone has one that they like better than these, I hope they will let us know.
1. I found five Nova Videos (the video you cite):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=QsH_Gh-n2Mg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en&v=QsH_Gh-n2Mg> (9:57)
This dated 2009 has English subtitles
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsH_Gh-n2Mg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsH_Gh-n2Mg> (9:57)
or (same)
https://www.doovi.com/video/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with/QsH_Gh-n2Mg <https://www.doovi.com/video/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with/QsH_Gh-n2Mg> (9:57)
or (Same)
http://www.yourhomeexplained.com/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with-english-subtitles/ <http://www.yourhomeexplained.com/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with-english-subtitles/> (9:57) Nov 5, 2011
or (same)
http://www.lyrics-youtube.com/lyrics/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with-english-subtitles-QsH_Gh-n2Mg <http://www.lyrics-youtube.com/lyrics/novavideo-nat-mulcahy-e-la-luciastove-now-with-english-subtitles-QsH_Gh-n2Mg> (9:57)
Mostly these had English sub-titles, I didn’t find this video to be the best around. It was not clear whether he was talking pyrolysis or gasification. So I went looking for more - all given below.
2. I found these for the Pup stove: (Not by Nat; by a chap named Hiram)
a. https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=5&vid=8fd7c4c57f67797d29919df47ae31d32&action=view <https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=5&vid=8fd7c4c57f67797d29919df47ae31d32&action=view> (this is #2 of 3 - showing the inner tube (a pipe) - not seen in #1 (next).
b. https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=1&vid=b6012a2d0b56a2dc97b27d647ae45140&action=click <https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=1&vid=b6012a2d0b56a2dc97b27d647ae45140&action=click>
This for #1 of 3:I see lots of red hot char here at 6:00- probably not TLOD - not sure why.
c. No new information in the 3rd.,
3. Beaner stove - same chap (Hiram again) https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=3&vid=58a5c81941f4a1b96c61d22dd60cec41&action=view <https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=3&vid=58a5c81941f4a1b96c61d22dd60cec41&action=view> (This is simpler - a coke can outside - this seems to be TLOD - very different (dark coals). Seems to be the same inner pipe, but different heights of the outer can.
4. Nat’s Origami stove - very short video
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=4&vid=ef5fdf411e3bb438af549e55112fb35f&action=view <https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hsimp=yhs-SF01&hspart=Lkry&p=nat+mulcahy+stove+video+world+stove+pup#id=4&vid=ef5fdf411e3bb438af549e55112fb35f&action=view> ;
This one looked like TLOD (dark coals)
5. 2008 (3:22; by Nat - in English):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfxn5zPz-U0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfxn5zPz-U0>
(shows two modes) Very good on showing gases in both TLOD and TLUD versions. (Nat uses the term TLOD in text following from 4 years ago in response to a critic who only believed in TLUDs.
6. 2008 short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zefrhc8kgM <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zefrhc8kgM>
no flames, but many variations shown. (the term “wick" is here - a central flame blocker)
7. 2009 (6:04)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdY6CkCILm0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdY6CkCILm0>
emphasis on gasification - not pyrolysis. Very large flames.
8. 2010 - Radio interview in Sierra Leone; good only on work in this one country.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-5XIFj4HIg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-5XIFj4HIg>
better version at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y-G8DLLAxc&index=35&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y-G8DLLAxc&index=35&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w>
7. 2012, 4:18 Radio interview - maybe Sudan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EflprvOUL0 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EflprvOUL0>
Mentions Gates Foundation re water conservation
8. 2008 (1:01) Seems similar to one above. But good and short.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VvZVw-XuY&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=2 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VvZVw-XuY&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=2>
9. On the changes over time in designing the Pup stove:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLyRMjEhX4&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=3 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLyRMjEhX4&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=3>
Nothing on operation -but still one of my favorites. This shows the importance of Nat’s background in consumer appliances.
10. Less than a minute - with a brick unit for more flexibility, multiple pots. The only one like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK99va4NwkY&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=4 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK99va4NwkY&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=4>
11. Two very short - showing the two modes
a. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gYW1pfOV0&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=5 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-gYW1pfOV0&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=5>
10 seconds - gasification - glowing embers
b. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2IsGB9hWYs&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=6 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2IsGB9hWYs&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=6>
27 seconds - pyrolytic mode - no glowing
12. Earth day 6:04 - non-technical
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdY6CkCILm0&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=7 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdY6CkCILm0&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=7>
13. 43 secs. Lucia - very blue flames
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_AFzzTjnoE&index=10&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_AFzzTjnoE&index=10&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w>
14. 4:54 - different type of video short clips during development.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43KCPcM6bY&index=11&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b43KCPcM6bY&index=11&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w>
15. 42 secs more like a Ppt. biochar oriented
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pBPRnAh7lw&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=17 <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pBPRnAh7lw&list=PU_e0jFpsYy22M4NezF5_M7w&index=17>
16. By another person: does good job on differences
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_o2Lu6YvHc <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_o2Lu6YvHc>
17. Last: Googling for “Lucia stove” I found this site not produced by Nat:
http://geekfun.com/2010/02/16/the-lucia-stoves-coaxial-gasification/ <http://geekfun.com/2010/02/16/the-lucia-stoves-coaxial-gasification/>
About half way through there are an excellent series of responses and arguments about the Lucia by a correspondent “Matt”.
18. I also found a list of more than 40 short videos produced by Nat - but none as helpful as the above.
Summary: The main thing I learned is that Nat is able now (probably easily) to design for a specific fuel and cooking task (temperature and duration) - but that others will not find it so easy. Not clear yet how Nat is able to also switch (easily?) between gasification (TLUD) and pyrolysis (TLOD). To have some turn down seems to always require a fan/blower.
The pyrolysis mode (TLOD) is perhaps capable of getting a higher % char. Somewhere I heard about different Nitrogen retention.
I found no indication of how much energy is lost radially, or even how hot the outer wall gets - with either mode.
No data found of the type produced by Approvecho and EPA for the Tiers. At one place Nat claimed 93% combustion efficiency. I guess it might be higher, given the operation only in the open and many claims of not smelling anything.
I was very surprised to see and hear about so many different World Stove types - for very small to very large.
Many of the videos had extensive comments below the actual videos. Many are helpful with use of the word Venturi and TLUD/TLOD often. The only alternative to “TLOD” that I found was “pyrolysis” - with a few uses of “Venturi”.
Ron
a bit more below.
> On Apr 1, 2018, at 11:19 AM, alex english <aenglish444 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Kirk,
> A powerful forced air venturi could absolutely pull down on the gasses as you have drawn. He has quite a swirl in that Nova Video. That tall flame is starved for O2 in the center. If there is any mass separation of the gasses by gravity or centrifuge the C02 is heaviest then O2, then N2 and CO. Could they be differentially heated?? I see glowing embers at the edges. The so called flame cap does not extend to the outer edges. It would be very O2 rich there and relatively cold. Some of that could easily end up reacting lower down.
[RWL: No negative comment with this. Somewhere I read that the swirl was not so important. In many of the videos I found above, there is a huge difference between what Nat calls gasification and pyrolysis. So no surprise to see a little glowing when the main action is TLOD. With what Nat called TLUD, the embers were very red.
>
> Alex
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