[Stoves] Down with Fantasy-draft stoves

Mon Jun 18 06:14:37 CDT 2018

Paul,
In calm air one could assess the effective gap with a hot wire anemometer
moved slowly in  from the pails edge.
Perhaps even with a smoking stick...hmmm.

Alex

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Alex,
>
> What is shown in the photos certainly does and should work.  But what your
> initial message described (as I interpreted it) was something different,
> but precisely how different I do not remember.   The 1 mm gap???    Or that
> the primary air was moving downward INSIDE the large-diamter fuel chamber
> (as if there were no holes for primary air to enter at the bottom?   I do
> not remember, and I am not making an issue of this.
>
> Primary air is able to go down the outside of a fuel chamber to reach the
> primary air inlet holes at the bottom of a TLUD stove.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 6/17/2018 4:23 PM, alex english wrote:
>
> Hi Stovies,
>
> This relates to Paul's doubts that all the air can come in the top of a
> TLUD.
>
> I took two off the shelf items and with no alterations and made a
> serviceable stove for wood pellet fuel . I placed a stainless holey cutlery
> strainer on a shim in the bottom of a small stainless milk pail. The
> strainer is 4 5/8 inches in diameter and 5 inches tall. The top was about
> 3/4 of an inch below the top of the pail. Half filled with pellets, which
> leaves the pellets 3.5 inches the below the pot.  Top lit, it burned for
> about 45 minutes with all the air coming in from the top. The migrating
> front headed 'south' predictably. A little ash formed around the edges.
> Good flame stability.
>
> It is basically a one speed device unless you manipulate the fuel profile.
> The pot position, size and shape is a factor as the exhaust and air pass
> by each other in close proximity going in opposite directions.
>
> A pretty simple stove.
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 8:39 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Alex (and others)
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>>> That primary air  can be introduced above the fuel with the secondary air
>>> and drop down and spread out below the
>>> pyrolysis front.
>>>
>>   I would certainly like to see this demonstrated (visible) or supported
>> by scientific measurements.  Frankly, I have my doubts, especially if it is
>> less than 20 cm (8 inches) in diameter..
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 3/29/2018 5:40 AM, Andrew Heggie wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 March 2018 at 01:32, alex english <aenglish444 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andrew,
>>>> If you are curious you can 'freeze' theTLUD process at any point by
>>>> setting
>>>> the a TLUD in a pan of water that shuts off the air and wicks water
>>>> into the
>>>> raw pellets in the bottom of the fuel chamber. They will swell and wick
>>>> all
>>>> the way up to the Migrating Pyrolysis Front . The Torrefied layer and
>>>> the
>>>> char above will not swell. A careful excavation of the fuel will reveal
>>>> all.
>>>> When I did  this with the 18 inch diameter chamber I found a horizontal
>>>> layer of an inch, or a bit  less, of pellets in transition from raw
>>>> pellet
>>>> to torrified pellet to charred pellet.
>>>>
>>> Thanks again Alex it's an interesting experiment but I'm quite happy
>>> to take your word for the horizontal MPF.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Misting the outside of the stove
>>>
>>>> will can also give clear impression of a planar descent of the  MPF.
>>>>
>>> I never did much with pellets as I felt they were not a likely fuel
>>> compared with stickwood and so not representative of most users  In UK
>>> I find them too expensive compared with other fuels.
>>>
>>>> With very dry fuel like wood  pellet very little primary air is
>>>> required.
>>>> That primary air  can be introduced above the fuel with the secondary
>>>> air
>>>> and drop down and spread out below the
>>>> pyrolysis front.  If introduced tangentially the cooler fresh air
>>>> centrifuges to the outside edge of a round chamber and the flame
>>>> tornados up
>>>> the middle. A layer of fresh air one millimeter thick descending around
>>>> the
>>>> edge of a fuel chamber would be enough. Not a lot of control but this
>>>> resembles what many people have used this sort in other contexts. With
>>>> fussy fuel quality and placement it behaves in the steady top down way
>>>> that
>>>> a TLUD does with a little extra char burning.
>>>>
>>> Yes I made many such vortex burners in my experiments, the largest
>>> being 4foot diameter but I supplied all the air from above and
>>> inevitably to excess.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
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