[Stoves] particulate toxicity discussion

[Nikhil Desai]

Norbert: 

I infer the following from your comments and my earlier reading of relevant CFR:

1. Devices may have different PM numbers depending on size, power, and location (indoor stove v. outdoor heat-only boiler).

2. These New Source Performance Standards (NSPS) were revised in accordance with the National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) and justified on the basis of expected incremental improvement in air quality as the stock of older equipment or their use rates declined over time. 

Is that correct?
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List:

In my view, there is no basis for the claim that using chimneys or cooking outdoors makes no difference to pollution. 

Nor for any alleged improvement in air quality from meeting ISO Tiers this or that in the absence of a showing that expected actual displacement rate will lower concentrations of PM from all sources over an hourly average. 

Other conclusions may be arrived at depending on the degree of blind faith.  


Nikhil Desai
Skype: nikhildesai888

> On May 25, 2018, at 2:27 PM, Norbert Senf <norbert.senf at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >>From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
> 
> >>Thanks Norbert that was a great find.
> 
> I was not referring to the certification of stoves in the comment below, I was referring to the declaration that particles are equally toxic for regulatory purposes, then the host of regulations and guidelines which followed.
> (snip)
> ------------------separator-------------------------
> 
> Hi Crispin: OK, understood.
> Our own work has mainly revolved around finding a simplified way to get a reliable "EPA number" for an appliance.
> Getting a representative PM factor (grams of PM per kg of fuel burned) can get complicated without even addressing the toxicity.
> 
> I've found a couple of good rules of thumb:
> - (from Tami Bond): there are basically 2 kinds of PM, tar (OC) and soot (EC). To get tar, you need smoldering combustion. Soot comes from flaming combustion.
> - tar is 10X as toxic as soot (roughly, based on one study from Switzerland I've found, done on rats)
> 
> From the cleaner appliances like pellet stoves and masonry heaters, we only get soot. At the other end of the spectrum we have outdoor boilers, which are almost always in smolder mode and can easily have a 100X higher PM number. Since they make tar, they conceivably produce 1000X the toxicity from the same piece of wood, doing the same job (domestic heating).
> 
> A pretty good indicator of soot, as far as I can tell so far, is that your filter is black, but has no smell.
> 
> -- 
> Norbert Senf
> Masonry Stove Builders
> 25 Brouse Road, RR 5
> Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0
> 819.647.5092
> www.heatkit.com
> _____________________________________
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