[Stoves] Air pollution kills

Mon May 28 16:17:39 CDT 2018

 "You asked Crispin and me, "The important question: is it likely that air
pollution kills, or shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in
cities? "
Yes. Air pollution kills."
Fantastic!
That's all I needed to know.

Now, what, according to you Nikhil, should we do with all the millions of
dollars? Where should we invest them? Where should we put all our efforts?

Best,

Xavier

On 28 May 2018 at 18:07, Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Xavier:
>
> You asked Crispin and me, "The important question: is it likely that air
> pollution kills, or shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in
> cities? "
>
> Yes. Air pollution kills. Whom, when, where, and how, is a lucrative
> consulting business. Some victims of respiratory diseases suffer worsening
> of symptoms and death when air quality is in orange or red zone too long.
>
> Kirk Smith and WHO asserted that solid fuels pollute, by definition, and
> premature deaths are attributable to solid fuels.  That was not enough
> for consulting revenues, so HFC Guidelines and ISO TC-285 were generated,
> to concoct aDALYs from complete and irreversible abandonment of solid
> fuels.
>
> The Church of 3G (GACC, Gold Standard, Goldman Sachs) saves.
>
> Keep faith. In priests.
>
> Nikhil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
> (US +1) 202 568 5831
> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Xavier Brandao <xav.brandao at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Crispin,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your answer.
>>
>>
>>
>>  ”1m premature deaths contributed to by things (in 51 categories)
>> decided by a committee of experts is hardly the same as pointing to a
>> murder weapon that killed an individual.”
>>
>> Of course, it’s not. The latter is normally pretty easy to do. The former
>> is indeed, a very complex statistical construct.
>>
>> No one can tell for sure that air pollution is responsible of a specific
>> number like 7 143 568 deaths, or 7 million, it may be difficult to even say
>> “between 6 and 8 millions”.
>>
>> But I think even before we talk about attribution and statistical
>> construct by the WHO, we need to assess what might be the truth.
>>
>> Because somewhere, there is a truth.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s take Ulan Bator. There are 1.5 million inhabitants.
>>
>> If all of them were using electrical heating and cooking, and driving
>> bicycles instead of cars:
>>
>> ·         would we likely see less indoor and outdoor air pollution?
>>
>> ·         would we likely see less cases of respiratory infections like
>> bronchitis, pneumonias, etc.?
>>
>> ·         would the respiratory infections cases likely be less acute?
>>
>> ·         would there likely be less cases of deaths due to a
>> respiratory infection?
>>
>> ·         would the life expectancy of the population likely be higher?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *De la
>> part de* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
>> *Envoyé :* dimanche 6 mai 2018 22:57
>> *À :* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> *Objet :* Re: [Stoves] Air pollution kills
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Xavier
>>
>>
>>
>> The difference between attribution of a contribution to a premature death
>> and a ‘cause of death’ is that one is a statistical construct for a
>> national population and the other is medical cause of death. There is no
>> common ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> 1m premature deaths contributed to by things (in 51 categories) decided
>> by a committee of experts is hardly the same as pointing to a murder weapon
>> that killed an individual.
>>
>>
>>
>> It may be that no one at all is killed by air pollution – it is just one
>> of a number of contributions to medical conditions that one way or another,
>> shorting one’s life with complications and consequences. A person may die
>> during an asthma attack, and there may be air pollution around at the
>> time.  Is that death caused by the air pollution, or the underlying
>> condition of asthma? No one knows what causes asthma. The cleaner the air
>> in North America, the more common asthma there is.  Is cleaner air
>> contributing to the shortening of lives in North America? On the face of
>> it, possibly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why do very few children who have contact with farm animals develop
>> asthma? Do farm animals extend lives?
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem is claims by organisations such as the WHO, again last week
>> at the SE4ALL meeting in Lisbon, that “indoor air pollution kills 4.3m
>> people per year”. The people making the claim know full well that it is
>> actually asserted that IAP *has been attributed to be a contributor* to
>> the shortening of 4.3m lives per year, not a ‘cause of death’ and they know
>> that I know that they know. Yet they persist in this exaggerated claim.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why? What is it they cannot achieve with the truth alone?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Crispin, Nikhil,
>>
>>
>>
>> The important question: is it likely that air pollution kills, or
>> shortens lives if you prefer, of people living in cities?
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t know if the debate over the terms « killing » or « shortening
>> life » is very relevant.
>>
>> When someone shoots a 80-year old man, who was maybe meant to live until
>> 81 years old only, you could say the shooter is not a killer, merely a
>> life-shortener. If the shooter shoots a 12-month-old baby who was meant to
>> live 81 years old, you could also say he shortened the baby’s life by 80
>> years. The baby was meant to die one day anyways.
>>
>> Should the shooter of the old man only get a small prison sentence? After
>> all, he only took 1 year from the old man’s life, maybe he only took 6
>> months or 2 months.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let’s admit that yes, life is dangerous and full of uncertainties, and
>> many factors have an impact on human’s health. But let’s admit we would
>> rather limitate the impact air pollution has on human health. How likely is
>> it that indoor air pollution has a large contribution to human deaths?
>> Outdoor air pollution?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Xavier
>>
>>
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>>
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