[Stoves] ND TLUD Basics

Anderson, Paul psanders at ilstu.edu
Sun Sep 16 17:24:59 CDT 2018


Neil,

1.  Your sensor system (watering of the eyes) is quite appropriate.

2.  The pyrolytic gases are made inside the column of fuel as the MPF (Migrating Pyrolytic Front) progresses downward.   That is gas CREATION.   The gas creation is NOT a factor in the sensing of the emissions UNLESS your TLUD device is pushing the limits of gas production either very high or very low.   But with a wide range of "medium" pyrolysis, you are getting quite consistent gases.  And this can be controlled with control of the primary air.

3.  Therefore, the key to the clean burning is in the mixing of the pyrolytic gases and the incoming O2 in the secondary air.   That is where you need to spend your time and your experiments.  And your three main variables are 

A.  The hole in the concentrator disk (this includes all the great innovations by Kirk Harris) and 

B.  The gap or holes that let the secondary air enter in under the concentrator, and 

C.  The riser (both height and diameter, but mainly height once the diameter is "sufficient")

Do not worry about cross winds and hot surfaces and multiple variations of fuels, etc.   Those are handled after you have mastered the clean burning.

You say you have a Peko Pe.   Great starting point.   What Wendlebo did not utilize is an intentional riser.  (He depended on the height of the stove above the concentrator to give sufficient draft (or to "control or influence" the draft).   Do some experiments with that configuration with various risers.   Get your tin cans at the supermarket.   (You might find some tasty food in some useful sized of tin containers.   I am thinking of canned fruit juices.)

Best wishes.   Please keep us informed.   

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of
> neiltm at uwclub.net
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 4:29 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ND TLUD Basics
> 
> Thank you all for your replies, I need more time to do justice to investigating
> what Paul and others have directed my attention to, so will have to come back
> later on most of these considerations.  But just for
> now:
> 
> I would indeed still like to understand more about air ratios and overall air
> volume to stove size for getting a non eye-watering burn with near zero
> moisture fuel as a starting point, so Julien Winter's work sounds interesting,
> and I would be happy to be pointed to anything online if there is anything.
> 
> I've had clean non eye-watering burns with the Chinese ND camp stoves
> sometimes, but not often as it seems designed primarily for robustness of the
> fire and adaptability to fuel of varying moisture content, so I find it hard to
> imagine taking a different stove camping now.  With Tom Reed's woodgas
> campstoves it was easier to achieve a non eye-watering burn because he
> clearly prioritised clean emissions, and it was nice not to have soot on the
> pans, but in use with more marginal fuel it could also be eye-watering, and in
> general was less tolerant of the fuel variations inevitably encountered in the
> wild.  If I was building my own FA-TLUD I would have a great starting point in
> those stoves, but would like to find that useful starting point with ND.
> 
> One problem of course is acquiring an endless supply of tins (cans) with which
> to try different possibilities.  I have a peko-pe type stove with concentrator,
> but no chimney, that delivers a good cooking flame. It is also a fantastic char
> producer, with little or no ash at the end of pyrolysis, which I appreciate for
> supplying the BBQ. The concentrator hole is cut in the base of a Kodak tin
> which contained 5.5inch aerial film that I acquired in the 1970s when I used to
> work with this, and I have precious few of them now!
> 
> I looked at building one of Paul's Champion stoves, but the prospect seemed a
> bit beyond my current skills and resources, so am looking for the most basic
> two can design, although if there is a feasible way to vary the
> primary/secondary air ratio during the burn this could be the ideal solution. I
> get from Paul that varying the primary air is the way to go. Frans's idea of a
> 'perforated bandage' sounds like something I have wondered about if it could
> be turned against side primary air holes on the inner can, but haven't been
> able to think of a way of controlling that with the outer can in place.  So I'm
> looking more for a fixed air design, that might be optimal for the consistent dry
> fuel I can achieve easily at home, but to get a better idea of what I'm doing in
> order to perhaps then have a selection of inner cans that I can select for
> different heat outputs/and perhaps more commonly experienced moisture
> contents of wood found/stored outdoors.
> 
> As soon as I can I will take some shots of my current revisited from 9 years ago
> tincanium stove and to include the flame.
> 
> Thanks again for the ideas so far.
> 
> Best wishes,  Neil Taylor (in England)
> 
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