[Stoves] From the 4th Woodstove design challenge

Thu Jan 3 21:13:05 CST 2019

Dear Nikhil

At the moment I am not convinced that the technology is right. These TEGs work but the operating temperatures have to come up two or three hundred degrees.

I met a guy from Pakistan at the CAU conference in October who is working on harvesting low temperature waste heat and making enough electricity to run an air conditioner. He is talking about heat below 150 C and ambient of maybe 40.

It is an absorption cycle. New materials are important.

The Stirling engine is cool but fantastically expensive But at least it can run with a 700 C input temperature.

As for commercial applications I see the first decent output ones, above 1 kW, a being installed in water heating systems because the heat sink is so large and cool. They can safely be run to double their design temperature on the input surface.

At present, at  $ a Watt, are you willing to spend $2k on a 1 kW generator that runs 24/7 for only 5 to 9 months a year?  It looks like options are needed. Perhaps LPG in summer. Makes sense.

As for future technologies I expect thermoacoustics will rule the roost once they are mass produced. The efficiencies run to 40% I hear. Perhaps Steve Garrett can comment. His main mechanic at Los Alamos concluded that using existing technologies it was best to use rotating Stirling engines, not resonant devices, if the power is low.

We need new inventions on that front. If each Ger stove working in Ulaanbaatar had a 1 kW generator it would produce more power their big station number 4.

Regards
Crispin

From: pienergy2008 at gmail.com
Sent: January 3, 2019 8:23 PM
To: crispinpigott at outlook.com
Reply to: ndesai at alum.mit.edu
Cc: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] From the 4th Woodstove design challenge

Crispin:

Y..a..w..n.

I do not plan to enjoy a premature death, but my tentative date guess for the economics of mass market delivery and service for such products to household users without significant space and water heating demands is that 2034 is the earliest.

Nothing better to do?

Nikhil

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:29 AM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
NY and Canadian companies win technology challenge to automate the wood stove<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D001Yqy8TxF8iiwWFw3TFYxjhKa9eZs8eReeaqJD4CSJCe_ZaVJNhWfCL1t05r1BY_4G4WpO7JWBHerKDI-OU9-gH1eBGm0-1dj5XbjMK66UOlNbbf4OupJkF76Fp97EDO8LAGpX3cSv4DbSAE_ElTDOTGKnMufjTyxmXVAfyO7BtyILVHdsYl1aBv8qSxb89LAenjiEL_XLfEokCPCmMpi9BFZvGn5-Jobb%26c%3DZb1jHPv7ywEJrDdjhEsaJbygaeUffV4FUt3-ZQCcE0EaV6ZJ2A_JwQ%3D%3D%26ch%3DCtpoGXRbkxExKO77uT8rUUD12uBw56I_RuMe9V2lFHrXS2G_TynEvw%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb189a3a06a74a8c832f08d671896e4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636821232404499483&sdata=QS7z5%2F8cszL2F35Cxwmpaov5dQPwIaXFYgBycig9U8c%3D&reserved=0<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D001Yqy8TxF8iiwWFw3TFYxjhKa9eZs8eReeaqJD4CSJCe_ZaVJNhWfCL1t05r1BY_4G4WpO7JWBHerKDI-OU9-gH1eBGm0-1dj5XbjMK66UOlNbbf4OupJkF76Fp97EDO8LAGpX3cSv4DbSAE_ElTDOTGKnMufjTyxmXVAfyO7BtyILVHdsYl1aBv8qSxb89LAenjiEL_XLfEokCPCmMpi9BFZvGn5-Jobb%26c%3DZb1jHPv7ywEJrDdjhEsaJbygaeUffV4FUt3-ZQCcE0EaV6ZJ2A_JwQ%3D%3D%26ch%3DCtpoGXRbkxExKO77uT8rUUD12uBw56I_RuMe9V2lFHrXS2G_TynEvw%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C72da048f84444e914ff608d671e34cb3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636821618382680867&sdata=BlGZCsLol5KBDWlgl5LaAaET6Ds3jvgWqosoM2SMVcI%3D&reserved=0>>
Manually operated wood stoves are extremely common throughout the northern US, Canada and Europe but no one has yet popularized a solution to prevent them from emitting excessive smoke in the hands of operators.

The final tally: how much electricity can a wood stove make?<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D001Yqy8TxF8iiwWFw3TFYxjhKa9eZs8eReeaqJD4CSJCe_ZaVJNhWfCL1t05r1BY_4GD_gmhDEtlK-Euuu-xG2sR8-9yU39Gt2swbbJXSqCRXWRdTJauGsmA55vcQFG8l4o56KDIrX1S-_WPhnI35gSl5vzB9qtzAXG-pAke_MoPD_GStrrMKjXfWIQYJ9N4TVJM6L6ltONf9Hv3-6vqgbaoA5pywyNutpLS8IaX5-Zyes%3D%26c%3DZb1jHPv7ywEJrDdjhEsaJbygaeUffV4FUt3-ZQCcE0EaV6ZJ2A_JwQ%3D%3D%26ch%3DCtpoGXRbkxExKO77uT8rUUD12uBw56I_RuMe9V2lFHrXS2G_TynEvw%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cdb189a3a06a74a8c832f08d671896e4c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636821232404499483&sdata=esQDmqX0mKCNCWeNJkDtFHcfrD66Fsy2iNbHOBE%2B13Q%3D&reserved=0<https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fr20.rs6.net%2Ftn.jsp%3Ff%3D001Yqy8TxF8iiwWFw3TFYxjhKa9eZs8eReeaqJD4CSJCe_ZaVJNhWfCL1t05r1BY_4GD_gmhDEtlK-Euuu-xG2sR8-9yU39Gt2swbbJXSqCRXWRdTJauGsmA55vcQFG8l4o56KDIrX1S-_WPhnI35gSl5vzB9qtzAXG-pAke_MoPD_GStrrMKjXfWIQYJ9N4TVJM6L6ltONf9Hv3-6vqgbaoA5pywyNutpLS8IaX5-Zyes%3D%26c%3DZb1jHPv7ywEJrDdjhEsaJbygaeUffV4FUt3-ZQCcE0EaV6ZJ2A_JwQ%3D%3D%26ch%3DCtpoGXRbkxExKO77uT8rUUD12uBw56I_RuMe9V2lFHrXS2G_TynEvw%3D%3D&data=02%7C01%7C%7C72da048f84444e914ff608d671e34cb3%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636821618382680867&sdata=eiQEO4224VkTNsMRkRZzsN6Rrx7z%2BQsBnvafxtol0i4%3D&reserved=0>>
The highest electric output was 268 watts, by a German designed stove that could be combined with solar panels. Others produced less than 100, enough to power what they are designed for - lights bulbs and cell phone chargers. Output should increase each year. And then there is also Okofen's Stirling engine, that helped charge a Tesla.

These are posted in the Alliance for Green Heat's Newsletter

Regards
Crispin

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