[Stoves] Getting together this summer....RE: More about concentrators.

[Norman Baker]

Paul;

As much as I would like to attend the Fort Collins meeting, we have decided
to not attend. But, after a lot of work here, I will be going back to
Aprovecho to work with Ryan on more emissions testing.

Norm

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 1:17 PM Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Norm,    (and both Stove and Biochar lists for separate discussions)
>
>
>
> Your “hint” about betting together this summer merits a comment.   There
> are two related but quite separate “themes” in the TLUD summit efforts.
> One is about cookstoves (that make charcoal), and one is about charcoal
> making (biochar) that uses the pyrolysis processes.
>
>
>
> There will be at least one “gathering” about biochar (including char
> making) this summer, in Colorado on 30 June to 3 July.   I will be
> attending there and will be presenting (if abstract is accepted) about the
> 4C kiln for char making.   At that time (or on a day or two prior), char
> making folks could find a chance to gather.   We need to know who and then
> find a place.   (Note:  not much chance of doing something about char
> making on the 4th of July – a Thursday – or afterwards.).
>
>
>
> To have a TLUD STOVE-related gathering  could be anywhere.   Dean told me
> “unlikely in the summer at Aprovecho”, but could that change?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu       Skype:   paultlud
>
> Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
>
> Website:   www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:21 PM
> *To:* Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu>; Discussion of biomass cooking
> stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Subject:* Re: More about concentrators.
>
>
>
> *[This message came from an external source. If suspicious, report to
> abuse at ilstu.edu <abuse at ilstu.edu>]*
>
> Julien;
>
>
>
> Your design sounds interesting withy the nozzle. Sounds like we need
> another TLUD Summit sometime this summer - HINT, HINT  HINT!!!!
>
>
>
> Amen on your comments about our dime!
>
>
>
> Norm
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 8:13 AM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Norm;
>
>
>
> I have not heard of any emissions testing on Dave Yarrow's nozzle TLUD
> combustor.
>
>
>
> On a cookstove ND-TLUD, I will do some tuning to an internal riser ±
> nozzle, then send that for testing.
>
>
>
> Remember, we have to measure CH4 as well, else TLUDs will be left out of
> carbon credits schemes.
>
>
>
> Pity that we have to do all of this on our own dime.  If we had a research
> grant, we would have all problems solved.
>
>
>
> Julien.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 9:10 AM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Norm;
>
>
>
> The photograph is of a double-walled TLUD with pre-heated secondary air.
> The 55 gal. drum has no bottom.   The 35 gal drum is the TLUD reactor.
>
>
>
> However, I have put the same burner on at single-walled 55 gal. TLUD, with
> a gap between the top of the drum and the lid supporting the burner.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julien.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:22 PM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Julien;
>
>
>
> Thank you so much. Now that I see the nozzle, I remember it well. Seems
> like a good idea to promote mixing.
>
>
>
> The 55 gal. barrel has holes in the bottom like a TLUD? And, I assume the
> 35 gal. is a retort?
>
> By the way, David Yarrow now lives just south of Olympia Washington where
> he is very active in a soils group called Nutriculture. Very interesting
> man.
>
> Norm
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:41 PM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Norm;
>
>
>
> The nozzle discussed above would replace a concentrator ring in a ND-TLUD
> cookstove, or go at the bottom of an internal riser burner.
>
>
>
> For a 55 gallon TLUD, a nozzle can be adapted from black stove pipe
> expanding/reducing connectors.  There is a picture of one (attached) that I
> built in 2013, following the advice of David Yarrow.  It is a 35 gallon
> drum inside of a 55 gallon drum.  David suggested cutting diagonal slits in
> the side of the expanding connector to create a tertiary air entry point.
> Later, I attached three cable guy-wires, with turn-buckles, to stabilize
> the stack.   I don't have it any more.  I gave it away to a friend.
>
>
>
> For these nozzles, I assume that there is a large degree of mixing of
> secondary air and pyrolytic gases before they enter the nozzle.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julien.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Julien;
>
> I'm not sure I entirely understand where you put the nozzle? Where would
> you suggest in my 55 gal. TLUD?
>
> Norm
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 6:58 AM Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> Julien,    (and to the Stoves Listserv, and for posting at my website
> www.drtlud.com/eposts   )
>
>
>
> Interesting.
>
> Are the nozzles with slanted walls (like in a funnel) or with straight
> sides?    What diameters at each end for what sized of TLUD gasifiers?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu       Skype:   paultlud
>
> Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
>
> Website:   www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:31 AM
> *To:* Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>
>
> Hi Norm;
>
>
>
> Instead of a concentrator ring, try a nozzle.    A nozzle brings the
> burning gases together without the shape edges of a concentrator ring.
>  The sharp edges could generate soot.  A nozzle has smooth edges.   TLUD
> nozzles are being manufactured, but they are being misused!!   People are
> turning them upside down and using them to load mason jars with food.   So,
> you can find TLUD nozzels on the shelves for food canning supplies in
> hardware stores.
>
>
>
> The reason why I got into the stove burner design business about five
> years ago was because when I used concentrator rings, I got deposits on the
> bottom of pots.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julien.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 1:47 AM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Paul;
>
> I assume you mean the diameter of the stack or combustor? In prior tests
> with concentrator rings, a whole that has a diameter of 70% of the stack
> seem to be adequate. Lately, I have been going to about an 80%
> diameter.  In one publication I read the stack diameter should be at least
> 60% of the feedstock barrel diameter. Otherwise the time needed for gases
> to exit the combustor became too fast and hence too short for complete
> combustion. Is this your experience? And how about the rest of you chiming
> in on this.
>
>
>
> Norm
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:05 PM Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> Norm,
>
>
>
> In general, the diameter of the hole is about half of the diameter.   But
> there might not be any visible (noticeable) impact if reduced or enlarge 10
> to 20% of the size of the  hole.  Trial and error are your best bets to get
> this refined.
>
>
>
> I look forward to hearing of your results.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Julien Winter
> Cobourg, ON, CANADA
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Julien Winter
> Cobourg, ON, CANADA
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Julien Winter
> Cobourg, ON, CANADA
>
>
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