[Stoves] Getting together this summer....RE: More about concentrators.

[Anderson, Paul]

Norm,    (and both Stove and Biochar lists for separate discussions)

Your “hint” about betting together this summer merits a comment.   There are two related but quite separate “themes” in the TLUD summit efforts.   One is about cookstoves (that make charcoal), and one is about charcoal making (biochar) that uses the pyrolysis processes.

There will be at least one “gathering” about biochar (including char making) this summer, in Colorado on 30 June to 3 July.   I will be attending there and will be presenting (if abstract is accepted) about the 4C kiln for char making.   At that time (or on a day or two prior), char making folks could find a chance to gather.   We need to know who and then find a place.   (Note:  not much chance of doing something about char making on the 4th of July – a Thursday – or afterwards.).

To have a TLUD STOVE-related gathering  could be anywhere.   Dean told me “unlikely in the summer at Aprovecho”, but could that change?

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com<http://www.drtlud.com>

From: Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 1:21 PM
To: Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com>
Cc: Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu>; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: More about concentrators.

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Julien;

Your design sounds interesting withy the nozzle. Sounds like we need another TLUD Summit sometime this summer - HINT, HINT  HINT!!!!

Amen on your comments about our dime!

Norm

On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 8:13 AM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com<mailto:winter.julien at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Norm;

I have not heard of any emissions testing on Dave Yarrow's nozzle TLUD combustor.

On a cookstove ND-TLUD, I will do some tuning to an internal riser ± nozzle, then send that for testing.

Remember, we have to measure CH4 as well, else TLUDs will be left out of carbon credits schemes.

Pity that we have to do all of this on our own dime.  If we had a research grant, we would have all problems solved.

Julien.

On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 9:10 AM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com<mailto:winter.julien at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Norm;

The photograph is of a double-walled TLUD with pre-heated secondary air.  The 55 gal. drum has no bottom.   The 35 gal drum is the TLUD reactor.

However, I have put the same burner on at single-walled 55 gal. TLUD, with a gap between the top of the drum and the lid supporting the burner.

Cheers,
Julien.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 10:22 PM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com<mailto:ntbakerphd at gmail.com>> wrote:
Julien;

Thank you so much. Now that I see the nozzle, I remember it well. Seems like a good idea to promote mixing.

The 55 gal. barrel has holes in the bottom like a TLUD? And, I assume the 35 gal. is a retort?

By the way, David Yarrow now lives just south of Olympia Washington where he is very active in a soils group called Nutriculture. Very interesting man.

Norm

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:41 PM Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com<mailto:winter.julien at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Norm;

The nozzle discussed above would replace a concentrator ring in a ND-TLUD cookstove, or go at the bottom of an internal riser burner.

For a 55 gallon TLUD, a nozzle can be adapted from black stove pipe expanding/reducing connectors.  There is a picture of one (attached) that I built in 2013, following the advice of David Yarrow.  It is a 35 gallon drum inside of a 55 gallon drum.  David suggested cutting diagonal slits in the side of the expanding connector to create a tertiary air entry point.  Later, I attached three cable guy-wires, with turn-buckles, to stabilize the stack.   I don't have it any more.  I gave it away to a friend.

For these nozzles, I assume that there is a large degree of mixing of secondary air and pyrolytic gases before they enter the nozzle.

Cheers,
Julien.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com<mailto:ntbakerphd at gmail.com>> wrote:
Julien;

I'm not sure I entirely understand where you put the nozzle? Where would you suggest in my 55 gal. TLUD?

Norm

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 6:58 AM Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
Julien,    (and to the Stoves Listserv, and for posting at my website  www.drtlud.com/eposts<http://www.drtlud.com/eposts>   )

Interesting.
Are the nozzles with slanted walls (like in a funnel) or with straight sides?    What diameters at each end for what sized of TLUD gasifiers?

Paul

Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>       Skype:   paultlud
Phone:  Office: 309-452-7072    Mobile: 309-531-4434
Website:   www.drtlud.com<http://www.drtlud.com>

From: Julien Winter <winter.julien at gmail.com<mailto:winter.julien at gmail.com>>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:31 AM
To: Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com<mailto:ntbakerphd at gmail.com>>
Hi Norm;

Instead of a concentrator ring, try a nozzle.    A nozzle brings the burning gases together without the shape edges of a concentrator ring.   The sharp edges could generate soot.  A nozzle has smooth edges.   TLUD nozzles are being manufactured, but they are being misused!!   People are turning them upside down and using them to load mason jars with food.   So, you can find TLUD nozzels on the shelves for food canning supplies in hardware stores.

The reason why I got into the stove burner design business about five years ago was because when I used concentrator rings, I got deposits on the bottom of pots.

Cheers,
Julien.



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 1:47 AM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com<mailto:ntbakerphd at gmail.com>> wrote:
Paul;

I assume you mean the diameter of the stack or combustor? In prior tests with concentrator rings, a whole that has a diameter of 70% of the stack seem to be adequate. Lately, I have been going to about an 80% diameter.  In one publication I read the stack diameter should be at least 60% of the feedstock barrel diameter. Otherwise the time needed for gases to exit the combustor became too fast and hence too short for complete combustion. Is this your experience? And how about the rest of you chiming in on this.

Norm

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:05 PM Anderson, Paul <psanders at ilstu.edu<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
Norm,

In general, the diameter of the hole is about half of the diameter.   But there might not be any visible (noticeable) impact if reduced or enlarge 10 to 20% of the size of the  hole.  Trial and error are your best bets to get this refined.

I look forward to hearing of your results.

Paul




--
Julien Winter
Cobourg, ON, CANADA


--
Julien Winter
Cobourg, ON, CANADA


--
Julien Winter
Cobourg, ON, CANADA
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