[Stoves] Pebble bed three stone fire

[Nikhil Desai]

Crispin:

Yeah, yeah. You found some photo opportunity.

What problem are you claiming to solve, and what did this "efficient
woodstoves" enterprise achieve in 50 years?

I think Kevin's work has exposed the pretense and presumptuousness of fake
EPA scientists let loose on the poor of the world.

A serious draft under preparation. Please consider the means and ends in
this silly competition of "fuel efficiency".

I wonder if you can muster some shame.

Nikhil
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nikhil Desai
(US +1) 202 568 5831
*Skype: nikhildesai888*



On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 10:15 AM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> Dear Nikhil
>
> Your obsession about our obsession may be answerable by referring to the
> cook who said she was buying half as much fuel (150 K Shillings) per day.
> Perhaps she too is obsessed but about saving money.
>
> I tried carefully, in detail, to assess whether the change in the fire
> permitted her to use an alternative fuel which might save additional money,
> as ins the case in Kyrgyzstan. She said, "No."
>
> She just spends half the money she used to.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> *From:* ndesai at alum.mit.edu
> *Sent:* November 8, 2019 4:00 PM
> *To:* crispinpigott at outlook.com
> *Cc:* cec1863 at gmail.com; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Pebble bed three stone fire
>
> Crispin:
>
> Please get over this "save the fuel" mania. What does it mean - either
> financial saving if a bank gives a 10% real interest, or some ecosystem
> protection that is context-specific and computing value to which (and for
> whom) is an extremely demanding task.
>
> The discussion sparked by "rocks" was informative, just that we know the
> basic combustion science of air flows for centuries. Why did it take so
> long for people, even experts, to figure this out? Deliberate neglect of
> options that don't allow pretense of science?
>
> I remember a couple of years ago, Ron had gone to some conference in a US
> midwest university where a professor (of Indian origin, I forget the name)
> had presented research on a cheap grate introduced in some communities of
> Rajasthan. Looks like nobody paid attention to such research, even for
> "fuel saving". Understandable; such solutions don't advance the
> bureaucratic interests of EPA and the career interests of its contractors.
>
> N
> ------------------------
> Nikhil Desai
> (US +1) 202 568 5831
> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 7:35 AM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Nikhil
>>
>> You ask good questions.
>>
>> Africa is the place but not exclusively. I have a document showing the
>> sums.
>>
>> It has been certified by the SNV lab in Cambodia using their modified
>> water boiling test which was developed by GERES to try to correct some
>> problems in the WBT4.
>>
>> The comparison is made with the performance of a three stone fire. The
>> TSF is still very popular.
>>
>> The technology is not limited to three stones. They are experimenting
>> with adding rocks (which increases breathing through the coals on the
>> bottom) is all manner of stoves.
>>
>> Consider the rocket stove. It suffers from a high char production rate
>> (as a fraction of fuel fed) and the change really improves performance in
>> terms of high power, lower fuel needed and lowered emissions.
>>
>> Charcoal stoves seem to be improved if they are not the latest designs.
>> At present we don't have to know why the rocks work, it is enough that they
>> do.
>>
>> There is a very high retention rate. That alone indicates that it makes a
>> perceptible difference and that it is beneficial.
>>
>> I talked to two users and they agreed it saves a lot of fuel. About half,
>> she said.
>>
>> Until future notice, all stoves should be tested with stones added under
>> the fuel. See what happens. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's always good.
>>
>> Let's see. Nothing could be cheaper.
>>
>> As to what would Berkeley do, they will sell stove use monitors.
>>
>> Regards
>> Crispin
>> *From:* pienergy2008 at gmail.com
>> *Sent:* November 8, 2019 2:33 PM
>> *To:* crispinpigott at outlook.com
>> *Reply to:* ndesai at alum.mit.edu
>> *Cc:* cec1863 at gmail.com; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Pebble bed three stone fire
>>
>> Crispin:
>>
>> Cute. Glad. Please give some context when possible:
>>
>> 1. Where?
>> 2. Is this measured and certified under ISO protocols using WBT? If so,
>> it can be compared with the tens of other products.
>>
>> Taking your "3 million" at face value, SNV success is to be celebrated. I
>> don't really know how many of the "3 billion" people do all their cooking
>> and water heating with literally "three stones" - nobody knows, pretense
>> notwithstanding - but it is always good to find such examples of
>> innovation. Unfortunately, I have had no first hand experience of cooking
>> with wood on three stones.
>>
>> Just think - if rocks can reduce emissions, the price of aDALY could be
>> driven down to $0.05 per capita per year! What would Berkeley do?
>>
>> N
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Nikhil Desai
>> (US +1) 202 568 5831
>> *Skype: nikhildesai888*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 9:38 AM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
>> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends
>>>
>>> This is a photo of the three stone fire with a set of stones in it, and
>>> a clay grate as an aeration device.
>>>
>>> In the past 8 months about 3 million people have adopted this as a fuel
>>> saving and emissions reduction "device".
>>>
>>> The retention rate (continued use) is in the high 90's % range. It's
>>> effect is obvious and basically free.
>>>
>>> This is a demo presented by SNV after the ISO meeting.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Crispin
>>>
>>
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