[Stoves] Water Disinfection - Mix Boiling Water and Unheated Water to Pasteurize

[K McLean]

Tony,

Thanks for this.  I'm glad some work has already been done on this.  I have
emailed Tom Sponheim to see how far his testing went.  I want to go beyond
theory and have the water tested pathogens.  (Again, if any of you can
suggest someone who can do the testing, please do so.)

Kevin






On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 11:15 AM Anthony Vovers <vovers1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for interesting discussion.
>
> Due to inconsistencies in application a boil 3 add 1 recommendation is
> often used.
>
> https://solarcooking.fandom.com/wiki/Boil_3,_Add_1_Method
> Solar stills often have to deal with <boil  situation.
>
> Low cost WAPI's wax indicators can tell you 70C is achieved visually
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 06:38 Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Kevin
>>
>> I like the idea, but the temperature will not be high enough for long
>> enough, or both at 70. Here is a time and temperature chart to guide you
>> (attached).
>>
>> You can see the idea of flash pasteurization is valid, but not at 70 C.
>>
>> If you assume you can attain at least one second with good mixing, you'll
>> need 90 C to start.
>>
>> It looks as if you should monitor the temperature carefully and see how
>> long it takes to get it well mixed, and how rapidly the temperature drops.
>>
>> Then plan how much you can mix, and how it is to be stirred. The higher
>> the temperature the more rapidly it will cool. It is fair to assume the lid
>> will be off because of the stirring.
>>
>> This site has what saw would call practical advice
>>
>>
>> https://www.offgridweb.com/preparation/survival-science-minimum-water-boiling-time/
>>
>> Neither reference mentions that spores of several diseases are not killed
>> at 100 C including anthrax, tetanus, gangrene and botulism.
>>
>> Maybe boiling is not such a bad idea.
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Crispin
>> *From:* info at sun24.solar
>> *Sent:* September 21, 2019 3:42 PM
>> *To:* stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; dandreatta at sealimited.com;
>> rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> *Reply to:* stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> *Subject:* [Stoves] Water Disinfection - Mix Boiling Water and Unheated
>> Water to Pasteurize
>>
>> Listmates,
>>
>> Dale, Ron and I have found a simple way to improve by a third the
>> efficiency of boiling water for disinfection.
>>
>> As you probably know, water is flash pasteurized at 71C.  However, most
>> people boil (100C) their water because boiling is their only mark.  Without
>> indicators such as a thermometer or WAPI, people don't know when their
>> water reaches 70C.
>>
>> Our testing indicates pasteurization is probably attained by boiling two
>> parts boiling water and adding one part unheated water.  The mixture should
>> have a temperature that flash pasteurizes the water.
>>
>> With one billion people boiling water, the benefits of increasing
>> efficiency by a third are obvious with savings of time, money, fuel and
>> emissions.
>>
>> Here are my test results
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1OYMUmC6giV-G_CBstBh8ivBn1n_lxHJ0X_sMiR6lLmU%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cddef897627a041d9954408d73ecbe202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637046917695695479&sdata=pF%2FgTosWrfSSgcIHBx2Yyg6alBdeMemMTAQjRsgNYSk%3D&reserved=0>.
>> Dale's time/temperature testing indicates that a 1:1 mixture (boiling water
>> to unheated water) may be insufficient for pasteurization.
>>
>> We need testing for live pathogens.  Can you recommend someone to test
>> this method with water contaminated with pathogens?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Kevin
>>
>> *Kevin McLean, President*
>> *Sun24*
>>
>> *https://sun24.solar
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsun24.solar&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cddef897627a041d9954408d73ecbe202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637046917695705490&sdata=BtUxmAzJrwp3BrJvDGrarEEpZTikHrgtaShOfGEBTYc%3D&reserved=0>
>> Sun24 Cookstoves Overview
>> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fdocument%2Fd%2F1ZryS7gQ1q3zKLZPM2KcXdtIHbOYQp4PbloPqMvrlZ5Y%2Fedit%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cddef897627a041d9954408d73ecbe202%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637046917695715495&sdata=N%2FLwTVfrWLzGfVIT3onQt8q2g%2BwK1IqS9Quc08K6EUQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> *
>> *Tampa, Florida, USA*
>> *+1 (813) 505-3340 <+1(813)5053340>*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20190922/e4c03996/attachment.html>