[Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves

Mon Jan 27 22:34:55 CST 2020

I understood you to mean that the fuel was measured and the char discarded.
If the stove is leaving char at the end of a cook but the char is not being
accounted for than it shouldn’t matter what you do with the char. Does that
make sense? I can see the misreporting problem.

Tom

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:53 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> “If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char
> burnout then there is no penalty…”
>
>
>
> What exactly do you mean by that. I don’t want to misinterpret.
>
>
>
> Do you mean if the char energy is subtracted from the fuel energy before
> converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?
>
> Do you mean if the char energy is *not *subtracted from the fuel energy
> before converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?
>
>
>
> This is the essence of the misreporting of the fuel consumption of a
> stove.  Is it based on the fuel needed to operate, or the energy released
> and back-calculated to an equivalent fuel mass.
>
>
>
> If the fuel was measured and the char discarded, then I understand you to
> be saying there is no fuel penalty because the char was not affecting the
> claimed fuel consumption.
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> *On Behalf Of *Tom
> Miles
> *Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2020 18:28
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Cc:* stoves at bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves
>
>
>
> If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char
> burnout then there is no penalty for removing residual char for other
> purposes. In the Lifeline cases cited the uses appeared to be essential
> activities in the household.
>
>
>
> In the biochar case there can be more benefit from the agronomic uses -
> reduced cash for fertilizer, reduced labor for watering, improved yield,
> etc. - than for carbon sequestration. Depending on the application and the
> fuel it may be more practical to make the biochar in other devices but it
> may be suited to small garden plots.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 3:15 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you Tom.
>
>
>
> For CDM projects, there is no consideration given for the removal of char
> in the fuel efficiency calculations, which underlies the determine of
> generation of CER’s.  There easily cold be, but there is not.
>
>
>
> Only a reduction of fuel consumption is considered, and that is
> field-assessed.  If one were to argue that the char was being sequestered
> in an inaccessible and permanent manner, one could propose a new rule for
> the calculation of GHG’s considering retained char.
>
>
>
> The only thing they record for stove projects is fuel mass harvested for
> cooking.  Obviously there is an implication that the carbon is (largely)
> released as CO2.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
> *From:* Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> *On Behalf Of *Tom
> Miles
> *Sent:* Monday, January 27, 2020 17:54
> *To:* stoves at bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves
>
>
>
> It was an eventful gathering at the ETHOS meeting in Kirkland, Washington,
> USA, this weekend. Many thanks to Elisa Derby, Nordica MaCarty, the ETHOS
> board and volunteers for our 20th year celebration.
>
>
>
> It was apparent to me from the advanced modelling, lab performance data,
> field tests and field experiences which were reported that charcoal is an
> important component of household energy and food security. Within the stove
> charcoal combustion contributes high peak temperatures which can improve
> performance and reduce emissions. This is demonstrated in the addition of
> the "Jet-Flame" to a Rocket Stove, which I view as a charcoal burner. By
> introducing a little pressurized air at the grate you can "low on the
> coals". The addition of uniformly distributed undergrate air, with even a
> little pressure, is enough to improve char combustion and shorten the
> flame, which should indicate increased carbon monoxide burnout. Aprovecho
> showcased the Jet-Flame at ETHOS. Their testing showed nearly complete
> charcoal burnout.
>
> https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201911/08/WS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html
> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fa%2F201911%2F08%2FWS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101206239&sdata=q1Nw0pobUoVg6fVfO%2FUWhLJL3YR5rYyH1LJrgBEo2Mc%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Others from Lifeline said there were circumstances where the charcoal is
> very important for other uses in the household and that burning out
> charcoal would not be desired. Someone with a better memory can remind me
> of what those uses were,
>
>
>
> Biochar advocates want to make charcoal for use in the soil while cooking,
> which is usually accomplished by removing charcoal faster than you are
> consume it.
>
>
>
> In cases where we want to leave residual charcoal or remove it to make
> biochar we need to balance the performance benefits of burning the charcoal
> with the household needs or food security  - biochar - benefits. We have
> new tools but we need to find out how best to use them.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> --
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
> Portland, OR 97225
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.bioenergylists.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fstoves_lists.bioenergylists.org&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101216251&sdata=ql1vJGXb0VCDanbOVKh7MYx2DefM2n7i8Hfy4vSaidU%3D&reserved=0>
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101216251&sdata=puwznCPdb0qmU4jAo3tR00tEi4EKDm%2Becsq43NrcsJ0%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
> 1470 SW Woodward Way
> Portland, OR 97225
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> www.trmiles.com
> <https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trmiles.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101226260&sdata=iMgXgBDaOC73Qq2X9xSNK9vu2kWxc0jfdGjQACMJusY%3D&reserved=0>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>

-- 
T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc
1470 SW Woodward Way
Portland, OR 97225
tmiles at trmiles.com
www.trmiles.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20200127/35b4e765/attachment-0001.html>