[Stoves] Stove Update
A J
awingle at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 1 14:04:32 CDT 2021
https://youtu.be/IsrvrK2R76M
Natural Draft with no fan.
Burns just like this all the way through after startup then it smokes a bit just as the pyrolysis front reaches the bottom.
Here's what it looks like during the daytime. Same stove next day after startup.
https://youtu.be/4N-LJHzdrns
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Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 127, Issue 19
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Today's Topics:
1. ***SPAM*** Re: [tluds] update on the TLUD (Harris, Kirk)
2. ***SPAM*** Re: Fwd: [tluds] update on the TLUD (Harris, Kirk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:39:03 -0700
From: "Harris, Kirk" <gkharris316 at comcast.net>
To: tluds at Biochar.groups.io
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: [tluds] update on the TLUD
Message-ID: <e0502b2d-e958-8399-6eb0-2a3982b0f132 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Ron,
Thank you for responding.
-The power level I did this test at was the highest power level the
stove can reach without smoking.? It is forced air primary, and the
stove in the video is natural draft.? My natural draft power level would
probably be similar to his, but without smoke or soot.? I am using
pellets, which could be considered a denser fuel, energy wise.? The
forced air primary flame must be brought up to power slowly, to heat the
stove, or it will smoke during the transition.
-The natural draft makes charcoal.? The forced air primary does as well
but the higher power levels tend to burn char.? There must be a lot of
air that gets past the migratory pyrolysis front and into the char.
-I will test a standard pot for you.
-I don't know the cost of commercial skirts.? Aprovecho can tell you.
-My experiments with TLUDs have lead me to 4 basic principles for mixing
in a TLUD:
1.? The surface contact between the gasses should be maximized:
Turbulence provides this and so does spreading the flame with a bluff body.
2.? Depth of penetration should be minimized:? Turbulence does this and
so does spreading the flame with a bluff body
3.? Diffusion:? Works in Turbulence and also when spreading the flame
with a bluff body
4.? Pressure difference between the gasses, which pushes the gasses
together:? Turbulence wastes most of the pressure difference, spreading
the flame with a bluff body maximizes the use of the pressure difference.
This is a major reason why the stove can burn as clean as it does, it
effectively increases and uses the pressure difference between the gasses.
Kirk H.
On 3/26/2021 7:27 AM, Ron Larson wrote:
> Kirk and list:
>
> At
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w>
> the salesperson for the?stovetec superpot demonstrates boiling water
> in 15-17 minutes using 4 sticks. ??Can you add?anything about the
> comparison with your 7.5 minutes. ?You of course?had much higher?power
> level - but he could?have also.
>
> He?had?a nice amount of charcoal left. - too bad he didn?t?report on
> the?amount . ?Can you add?anything on your char production, with your
>
> The super pot shows the value of a skirt. ?Can you add more about how
> much?faster the boil occurred?with the super pot and your 5? of pellets?
>
> Can you gin uo a low cost skirt for your regular pot - and?guesstimate
> the cost and energy savings?
>
>
> Below your message ?below on the 24th is another?important message on
> the 23rd to this list just on pressure issues with your stove. ?That
> duplicated a message on the stove list on the 20th. ??Therefore I
> am?sending this?message?also to the stoves list and will add a few
> comments later?today on those two messages.
> ?I consider them very important because they?talk about pressure
> differences - which we can learn a lot from and?I think this may be
> the first?such report..
>
> Ron
>
>
>> On Mar 24, 2021, at 8:19 PM, Kirk Harris <gkharris316 at comcast.net
>> <mailto:gkharris316 at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Today I tested the stove with high-power forced primary air.? The 5
>> inch fuel reactor chamber, with aprox. 5" height of soft wood
>> pellets, brought 5 liters of water to a rolling boil, in a standard
>> SSM Super Pot without the lid, from 16 degrees C, in 7.5 minutes.?
>> The setting was 6 on the adjustment valve as the 9 setting was to
>> high and flames started coming out of the annulus between the
>> combustor and fuel reactor.? The super pot does this because it
>> creates more flow resistance than the simple pot I had been using.?
>> Then the stove was turned down to the natural draft setting of 1,
>> where it was stable and there was no smell of hydrocarbons.
>>
>> The stove is working quite well,
>>
>> Kirk H.
>>
>> On 3/23/2021 11:11 AM, Kirk Harris wrote:
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Attached is a write-up on the stove I have been experimenting with
>>> over the last several years.? I tried to put it on the stove
>>> discussion list, but it was flagged as spam and so it must have
>>> ended up in every ones spam folder.
>>>
>>> Kirk H.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com <https://www.avg.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:15:29 -0700
From: "Harris, Kirk" <gkharris316 at comcast.net>
To: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>, "tluds at biochar. groups.
io" <tluds at Biochar.groups.io>, Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: Fwd: [tluds] update on the TLUD
Message-ID: <c88892a6-9041-4cda-d211-176460a4c0a6 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
Ron,
-The setup was quite primitive.? I had a wand which I pushed through a
hole in the side of the stove and held in place.? First we left the wand
outside the stove to get a reading of atmospheric pressure.? A better
technique would be to attach a probe in place and run a tube out of the
stove to which the sensor is attached. This would be much more stable.?
We tried to hold the sensor tip perpendicular to the flow of gasses to
get only the static pressure.? The system needs improvement, but we did
get some basic results.? Sam attached the probe to the sensor that
measures the pressure in the tubes above the test hood where all the
sensors are located, so we could read out the results on the computer.
The sensor has sensitivity to .001 inches of water column.
-Any predictions?? Knowing the pressure is important in commercial and
industrial burners, so wouldn't it be important in a TLUD.? For a
natural draft stove, the initial pressure difference is provided by
buoyancy.? This extends throughout the entire stove.? Once the gasses
are moving, it is possible for pressure variations to occur in distinct
locations within the stove.? Forced air can enhance buoyancy.? I predict
that once we understand how pressure varies in TLUDs we will be able to
design better TLUDs.
The pressure of the flame gasses at the outside can be measured, but the
actual pressure which the wood gas would be without the air adding its
pressure would be difficult to measure.? Any measuring device placed in
the gas flow will change the flow and so change the pressure.? We
thought about shielding a portion of the gas with a shield that allows
the gas to expand as it would without the shield, and then measuring the
pressure of that.? We could probably get an approximation.
Kirk H.
On 3/26/2021 8:25 AM, Ronal Larson wrote:
> Kirk and two lists
>
> Yours below is a very important message - on pressure differences in a
> char-making stove.
>
> Can you give more on the way pressure was measured? ? From the top,
> bottom ?or side? ? Size of piping? ? ?Any chance to measure radially,
> etc. ? Can or has this been done at different power levels? ?Any
> similar data for temperatures at the 4 measurement spots?
>
>
> I think the pressures at the center of your stove (above atmospheric)
> are not too important - there is little material there and little
> motion. ?It was good to see lower pressure higher up.
>
> There are probably some readers of this who can relate pressures and
> power levels and temperatures. ?A prediction?
>
> You have one absolute (positive) pressure at the canter. ?Any chance
> at the outside where the greatest flow is occurring?
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *"Kirk Harris" <gkharris316 at comcast.net
>> <mailto:gkharris316 at comcast.net>>
>> *Subject: **[tluds] update on the TLUD*
>> *Date: *March 23, 2021 at 12:11:50 PM MDT
>> *To: *"tluds at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:tluds at Biochar.groups.io>"
>> <tluds at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:tluds at Biochar.groups.io>>
>> *Reply-To: *tluds at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:tluds at Biochar.groups.io>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Attached is a write-up on the stove I have been experimenting with
>> over the last several years.? I tried to put it on the stove
>> discussion list, but it was flagged as spam and so it must have ended
>> up in every ones spam folder.
>>
>> Kirk H.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com <https://www.avg.com/>
>>
>>
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