[Stoves] Fwd: [Biochar] Rocket stove design for retort heating #rocketstove #retort

[Ronal Larson]

List;

	I believe the following is self explanatory - and important for anyone thinking of really large stoves.

Ron

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Biochar] Rocket stove design for retort heating #rocketstove #retort
> Date: January 3, 2021 at 4:36:18 PM MST
> To: Trevor Richards <trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz>, "main at biochar.groups.io" <main at Biochar.groups.io>
> Cc: "kevin McLean >" <info at sun24.solar>, Ken Carloni <ken.carloni at gmail.com>, Bill Knauss <wmknauss at gmail.com>, Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com>, Kirk Harris <gkharris316 at comcast.net>
> 
> Trevor and biochar list with 5 ccs:
> 
> 	Inserts below but first:  why I’ve added 5 more .  (all with whom I ‘ve had multiple valuable conversations; and all in this area as volunteers - not needing to make a profit - and all I believe highly willing to share biochar (and stove/retort) experiences )
> 
> 	Kevin(FL):  Sees a need for something like you are designing for the large cook pots (200 liter or more?) now often/mainly using 3 rocks in many rural public schools - especially in Africa.
> 
> 	Ken (OR):  Has written a great report on using 200-liter barrels/drums, not as TLUDs or retorts, but split to enclose something like a really large flame-cap Kon-Tiki
> 
> 	Bill (NM):  Has built and tested a char making TLUD bigger than yours  both in diameter and height.  Not a retort above a TLUD, but similar issues below.
> 
> 	Norm (WA);  has the best knowledge I know re 200 liter barrels/drums as TLUDs 
> 
> 	Kirk (CA);  Has designed a large TLUD for use with planchas - with run time exceeding 2 (3?) hours
> 	
> 
> 	Your  5-point description below is first rate.  I hope Kevin, Ken, Bill, Norm, and, Kirk will add to my thoughts.  
> 
> 	This is an important topic.  
> 
> 	Needs to be on the stoves list as well. (I’ll send next.)
>   
> 	 Last remark reminds me there is a new beginning ISO effort on how to rate and rank stoes above 150 liter cook-pot size  - and you might find thatt helpful or vice versa.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 3, 2021, at 2:00 PM, Trevor Richards <trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz <mailto:trevor at soilcarbon.org.nz>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Paul,
>> This is an option being considered & was also suggested by Ron. These are some design considerations:
>> The pressure vessel we have for conversion to retort is 1000mm between dome ends & 800Dia (~500L). Current idea is to elevate retort to comfortable access height on its side (say 1m above ground) & fabricate swing door from one dome end. This gives 1m to play with under the retort. This could be extended with a pit but then we are handling TLUD's below our feet or in a trench or we house separately and duct heat/gasses to the retort furnace chamber. 
> 	[RWL1 - should work. 
> 
> 	 I have been thinking with Kevin of the lower part of a vertical 200 liter drum/barrel operated as a TLUD that would sit under your “pressure vessel”, whose height above ground would then be less than a meter (as are 200 liter drums).
> 
> 	The additions we have been considering to your TLUD thinking below is an added skirt whose height will cover both the lower TLUD and the upper “cook-pot/retort”.  Separating primary and secondary air has many possible alternatives.  We can discuss that more, if you wish.
> 		
>> Need to be able to extract (swap out?) a hot TLUD from the furnace chamber to quench. 
> 	[RWL2:  Yup.  Your upper retort is too big to move as one with a cook pot above a small TLUD.  I’ve been thinking of sliding the big TLUD out - maybe on rails if needed. Of course needs to have a smaller  OD than your retort.
>> TLUD would need to be sized to complete the retort heating phase ... how to size & design based on limitations
> 	RWL3:  Yup   Same issue for Kevin, Bill  and Kirk (not Norm and Bill)
>> A rocket stove could more easily fit within space available & be kept fed until gas ignition but maybe slow & labor intensive... again, how to estimate fuel load needed for our retort?
> 	[RWL4:  Yup.  A cook pot can’t give off useful gases as can your retort design, so you might not need too much “stove” below - especially with a skirt (which will help on operator comfort, speed ,and efficiency.
> 
>> Could assume 200-300kg of wood @25-35%MC when loaded. 
> 	[RWL5:  All of the above experts can help with that estimate.  Use maybe 15 MJ/kg  (wet) wood, use maybe density of .6 or .7?   Kevin will recommend much lower density corn cobs because of cost.  I have never seen a good analysis of energy needed for your sort of  retort.   Anyone on the list cable to give Trevor and estimate based on his 200-300 kg size/shape retort.
> 
> 	In sum,  I hope you stick with the TLUD over the Rocket
> 
> 
> 	Good luck.  Keep us informed.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
>> Your comments appreciated.
>> 
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 09:08, Paul S Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>> Trevor,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Why not start your retort with heat from a TLUD that will give you 70% of the heat and a lot of char in addition to what you get from the retort?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: main at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:main at Biochar.groups.io> <main at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:main at Biochar.groups.io>> On Behalf Of Trevor Richards via groups.io <http://groups.io/>
>> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2021 4:57 PM
>> To: main at Biochar.groups.io <mailto:main at Biochar.groups.io>
>> Subject: [Biochar] Rocket stove design for retort heating #rocketstove #retort
>> 
>> Looking for advice on designing a rocket stove to provide startup heating for a 500L retort. 
>> The plan is to cut one dome end off a steel pressure vessel to create a door. The vessel (Dia~0.8, L~1.0m) would on its side within a well insulated fire box. The idea is to use a rocket stove under the retort until gas ignition is sustained. I assume this has been tested before so I'm interested in...
>> 
>> guidance on H&MB calcs to estimate heating time to gas ignition, based on some typical wood biomass assumptions
>> design & sizing of rocket stove (will it even be practical heating solution). 
>> supplement with a small TLUD to kick off retort heating?
>> 
>> comments & suggestions welcome.
>> Thanks, trevor 
>> 
> 
> 

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