[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4

[Norman Baker]

Like all of you, I too became interested in Kevins hole in the ground for
cooking. From what I can tell in the videos iot does perform well for a
simple and direct as it is. I am not a stove person but am interested in
big TLUDs simply for creating biochar. Intuitively, I see some conditions
for good combustion like good air circulation even down in the hole between
the corn stover stalks. That said, I volunteered to Kevin to do an
emissions test when we go to Aprovecho later this year. Unfortunately I
collected just enough corn stover to do a few burns . But this includes one
burn with dried stover and only two burns with stover at ambient relative
humidity. As all of you know, moisture content is critical to a clean burn.
I will also be reporting moisture content. Going to be interesting.

Norm

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 10:04 AM <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (Graham Knight)
>    2. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (K McLean)
>    3. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (K McLean)
>    4. Re: ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>       Cookstove - Update (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    5. Re: ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>       Cookstove - Update (briancady413 at yahoo.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 10:48:42 +0100
> From: Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
> Message-ID: <b8a4ad3b-f76b-1fd2-6952-30ae5fad55b1 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear Stovers,
>
> I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
> under a 3-stone stove!!
> If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
> restricted combustion air.
> It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
> How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
>
> Graham Knight
> biodesign20.co.uk
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:13:31 +0200
> From: K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
> Message-ID:
>         <CALxcr-u=0qRdnHp8=
> a-3-rH0iLgn+3s7tVc5zeGAb8-ptZR_DQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Graham,
>
> The best I can do is tell you the cooking hole works.  Smarter people can
> tell you why
>
> The cooking hole was something of an accidental discovery.  We were working
> with the top down burn of crop waste, which works wonderfully.
>
> I wanted to try the top down burn in a three stone cookstove but there is
> little room under the cookpot.  So we dug a hole for the fuel.  I was not
> optimistic but it worked - very well.
>
> Kevin
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 11:53 AM Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Stovers,
> >
> > I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
> > under a 3-stone stove!!
> > If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
> > restricted combustion air.
> > It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
> > How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
> >
> > Graham Knight
> > biodesign20.co.uk
> >
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > https://www.avg.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:17:02 +0200
> From: K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
> Message-ID:
>         <CALxcr-vSF7Fj9GArmorJ9n3WKffuSz=
> d2NeLa0-EGn-+Vrh4iQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I can tell you that some air circulation in the fuel seems necessary.  Fine
> sawdust will not burn.
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 12:13 PM K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Graham,
> >
> > The best I can do is tell you the cooking hole works.  Smarter people can
> > tell you why
> >
> > The cooking hole was something of an accidental discovery.  We were
> > working with the top down burn of crop waste, which works wonderfully.
> >
> > I wanted to try the top down burn in a three stone cookstove but there is
> > little room under the cookpot.  So we dug a hole for the fuel.  I was not
> > optimistic but it worked - very well.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 11:53 AM Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Stovers,
> >>
> >> I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
> >> under a 3-stone stove!!
> >> If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
> >> restricted combustion air.
> >> It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
> >> How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
> >>
> >> Graham Knight
> >> biodesign20.co.uk
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> >> https://www.avg.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:35:18 +0000
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three
>         Stone Cookstove - Update
> Message-ID:
>         <
> BL0PR18MB212912395960935DBA2F9DF1B1B29 at BL0PR18MB2129.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Kevin
>
> This is another fine piece of work. I looked at all the videos and the
> techniques are clearly explained.
>
> I suggest that it is possible to make a round hole and to bundle the fuel
> with string or grass such that it is prepared in advance and fills the hole
> completely.  This method of cooking with grass and reeds was in use in
> Ugandan restaurants in 1986 or perhaps 1985.  Fuel vendors prepared the
> fuel for sale in "cylinders" which were dropped into the stove and
> top-lit.  The difference is that the fuel was standing up, not
> cross-layered and horizontal.  I understand they tied the reeds into long
> bundles with multiple strings and then sliced then like a sausage so one
> string held one bundle.
>
> You might try it to see if it is more convenient than hand-laying the
> pieces.
>
> I am sure a mix of fuels would be better than one alone.  Twigs and
> stover, for example.
>
> Realizing that this is potentially wasteful, but have you tried burying a
> bucket in the ground and using that? You can douse it and lift it out by
> the handle.  In some places buckets are hand made from roofing as a
> cylinder, not tapered.  That might be ideal.
>
> Many thanks for your original ideas and extensive field work.
>
> Best regards
> Crispin
>
>
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of K
> McLean
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 15:13
> To: Stoves and Biofuels Network <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; Ronal
> Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
> Cookstove - Update
>
> Adding a 25x25x25 cm hole to traditional open-fire cookstoves may end the
> collection of firewood from forests in many areas.  By piling fuel in the
> hole beneath the cookpot and lighting the pile on the top, the fuel burns
> long, hot, with no tending and with less smoke.  And by quenching the
> embers, cooks make biochar.
>
> We found that most woody biomass bigger than thin twigs burns well in the
> cooking hole<
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FDmzQFCp2kNI&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GGtQyXFPvzO7mFbB9bMNjvUsv64MuWe6UtJmqJLiwi8%3D&reserved=0>.
> Firewood the size that is typically burned in unmodified three stone
> cookstoves burns for three hours without tending.  Much less smoke is
> emitted than from an unmodified three stone cookstove.  A colleague
> estimates that the amount of wood in the cooking hole would burn for 30-40
> minutes in an unmodified three stone cookstove.  Here's a video<
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F15V4vTJxO1Lcm0wFzB96pQT9jvgjaXkwh%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1uOjT3ew6FHZMuIG7jeq3zZcQuDHKnON7E4HG987JVc%3D&reserved=0
> >.
>
> Thick twigs burned without tending for 1.5 hours.  Thick twigs and small
> branches are abundant and unused in much of Africa.
>
> The cooking hole also works with crop waste (maize stalks and cobs,
> cassava stems, banana peels, bean stems, ...), elephant grass, bamboo,
> large sawdust and wood shavings, sawdust briquettes, dung patties and
> more.  Depending on the fuel, the fire will burn without tending for 20
> minutes to several hours.  Here's our training video<
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FDmzQFCp2kNI&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GGtQyXFPvzO7mFbB9bMNjvUsv64MuWe6UtJmqJLiwi8%3D&reserved=0
> >.
>
> Women can:
> - All but stop collecting firewood.
> - Leave the kitchen to do other things once they start the fire.
> - Make biochar.
>
> And 8-12 common bricks can support two cookpots over one cooking hole
> allowing two meals to be cooked with the same amount of fuel and time it
> takes to cook one meal.  The time to boil is only a few minutes longer than
> for one pot.
> [cid:image001.jpg at 01D88586.BA2EC9D0]
>
>
> In much of Africa, most people know how to make bricks.  We show them how
> to make free custom bricks to line the cooking hole.  Here is a video<
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1b2WvePKX_ofnELUWhexqQZR4NyCrXxnH%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IeKQEii4NbgtfQZmX8o5k9t%2FRaNn2cMhJydcOgUdwbQ%3D&reserved=0
> >.
>
> Kevin McLean
> Sun24
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:48:16 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "briancady413 at yahoo.com" <briancady413 at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three
>         Stone Cookstove - Update
> Message-ID: <1727848971.7377854.1655912896599 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>  This discussion seems valuable.An addition, For What It's Worth:Cook and
> make biochar with merely a shovel? - Dakota fire hole modified to make
> biochar cleanly - progress so far.
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Cook and make biochar with merely a shovel? - Dakota fire hole modified ...
>
> Dakota fire holes are easy to build/dig, burn cleanly and clean up well.
> For more on these one can see: https://...
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
> Brian-
>
>
>     On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 11:39:53 AM EDT, Crispin
> Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Kevin
>
>  ?
>
> This is another fine piece of work. I looked at all the videos and the
> techniques are clearly explained.
>
>  ?
>
> I suggest that it is possible to make a round hole and to bundle the fuel
> with string or grass such that it is prepared in advance and fills the hole
> completely.? This method of cooking with grass and reeds was in use in
> Ugandan restaurants in 1986 or perhaps 1985.? Fuel vendors prepared the
> fuel for sale in ?cylinders? which were dropped into the stove and
> top-lit.? The difference is that the fuel was standing up, not
> cross-layered and horizontal.? I understand they tied the reeds into long
> bundles with multiple strings and then sliced then like a sausage so one
> string held one bundle.
>
>  ?
>
> You might try it to see if it is more convenient than hand-laying the
> pieces.
>
>  ?
>
> I am sure a mix of fuels would be better than one alone.? Twigs and
> stover, for example.
>
>  ?
>
> Realizing that this is potentially wasteful, but have you tried burying a
> bucket in the ground and using that? You can douse it and lift it out by
> the handle. ?In some places buckets are hand made from roofing as a
> cylinder, not tapered. ?That might be ideal.
>
>  ?
>
> Many thanks for your original ideas and extensive field work.
>
>  ?
>
> Best regards
>
> Crispin
>
>  ?
>
>  ?
>
>  ?
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>On Behalf Of K
> McLean
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 15:13
> To: Stoves and Biofuels Network <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; Ronal
> Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
> Cookstove - Update
>
>  ?
>
> Adding a 25x25x25 cm hole to traditional open-fire cookstoves may end the
> collection of firewood from forests?in many areas.? By piling fuel in the
> hole beneath the cookpot and lighting the pile on the top, the fuel burns
> long, hot, with no tending and with less smoke.? And by quenching the
> embers, cooks make biochar.
>
>  ?
>
> We found that most woody biomass bigger?than thin twigs burns well in
> the?cooking hole.? Firewood the size that is typically burned in unmodified
> three stone cookstoves burns for three hours without tending.? Much less
> smoke is emitted?than from an unmodified three stone cookstove.? A
> colleague estimates that the amount of wood in the cooking hole would burn
> for 30-40 minutes in an unmodified three stone cookstove.? Here's avideo.?
>
>  ?
>
> Thick twigs burned without tending for 1.5 hours.? Thick twigs and small
> branches are abundant and unused in much of Africa.
>
>  ?
>
> The cooking hole also works with crop waste (maize stalks and cobs,
> cassava stems, banana peels, bean stems, ...), elephant grass, bamboo,
> large sawdust and wood shavings, sawdust briquettes, dung patties and
> more.? Depending on the fuel, the fire will burn without tending for 20
> minutes to several hours.? Here's ourtraining video.
>
>  ?
>
> Women can:
>
>
> - All but stop collecting firewood.
>
> - Leave the kitchen to do other things once they start the fire.
>
> - Make biochar.
>
>
>  ?
>
> And 8-12 common bricks can support two cookpots over one cooking hole
> allowing two meals to be cooked with the same amount of fuel and time it
> takes to cook?one meal.? The time to boil is only a few minutes longer than
> for one pot.
>
>
>
>  ?
>
>  ?
>
> In much of Africa, most people know how to make bricks.? We show them how
> to make free custom bricks to line the cooking hole.? Here is a?video.
>
>  ?
>
> Kevin McLean
>
> Sun24
>  _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,? News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4
> **************************************
>
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