[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4
K McLean
kmclean56 at gmail.com
Wed Jun 22 13:58:03 CDT 2022
Hi Norm,
Thanks for doing the testing. Please don't feel limited to corn stover if
you are having trouble sourcing it. We've had success with woody biomass
bigger than thin twigs. So long as air can circulate and the fuel is dry,
it should burn well.
This seems to be an important development. Several African colleagues have
told me that twigs and small branches are very abundant and have no other
use. They are either burned or left to rot. And they burn longer in the
cooking hole than maize stalks. We may find that maize stalks not needed
in some areas.
Kevin
On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 8:45 PM Norman Baker <ntbakerphd at gmail.com> wrote:
> Like all of you, I too became interested in Kevins hole in the ground for
> cooking. From what I can tell in the videos iot does perform well for a
> simple and direct as it is. I am not a stove person but am interested in
> big TLUDs simply for creating biochar. Intuitively, I see some conditions
> for good combustion like good air circulation even down in the hole between
> the corn stover stalks. That said, I volunteered to Kevin to do an
> emissions test when we go to Aprovecho later this year. Unfortunately I
> collected just enough corn stover to do a few burns . But this includes one
> burn with dried stover and only two burns with stover at ambient relative
> humidity. As all of you know, moisture content is critical to a clean burn.
> I will also be reporting moisture content. Going to be interesting.
>
> Norm
>
> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 10:04 AM <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (Graham Knight)
>> 2. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (K McLean)
>> 3. Re: Improved 3-stone stoves (K McLean)
>> 4. Re: ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>> Cookstove - Update (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>> 5. Re: ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>> Cookstove - Update (briancady413 at yahoo.com)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 10:48:42 +0100
>> From: Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
>> Message-ID: <b8a4ad3b-f76b-1fd2-6952-30ae5fad55b1 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Stovers,
>>
>> I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
>> under a 3-stone stove!!
>> If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
>> restricted combustion air.
>> It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
>> How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
>>
>> Graham Knight
>> biodesign20.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:13:31 +0200
>> From: K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALxcr-u=0qRdnHp8=
>> a-3-rH0iLgn+3s7tVc5zeGAb8-ptZR_DQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Graham,
>>
>> The best I can do is tell you the cooking hole works. Smarter people can
>> tell you why
>>
>> The cooking hole was something of an accidental discovery. We were
>> working
>> with the top down burn of crop waste, which works wonderfully.
>>
>> I wanted to try the top down burn in a three stone cookstove but there is
>> little room under the cookpot. So we dug a hole for the fuel. I was not
>> optimistic but it worked - very well.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 11:53 AM Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Stovers,
>> >
>> > I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
>> > under a 3-stone stove!!
>> > If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
>> > restricted combustion air.
>> > It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
>> > How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
>> >
>> > Graham Knight
>> > biodesign20.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> > https://www.avg.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 12:17:02 +0200
>> From: K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved 3-stone stoves
>> Message-ID:
>> <CALxcr-vSF7Fj9GArmorJ9n3WKffuSz=
>> d2NeLa0-EGn-+Vrh4iQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I can tell you that some air circulation in the fuel seems necessary.
>> Fine
>> sawdust will not burn.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 12:13 PM K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Graham,
>> >
>> > The best I can do is tell you the cooking hole works. Smarter people
>> can
>> > tell you why
>> >
>> > The cooking hole was something of an accidental discovery. We were
>> > working with the top down burn of crop waste, which works wonderfully.
>> >
>> > I wanted to try the top down burn in a three stone cookstove but there
>> is
>> > little room under the cookpot. So we dug a hole for the fuel. I was
>> not
>> > optimistic but it worked - very well.
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 11:53 AM Graham Knight <biodesigndiy at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear Stovers,
>> >>
>> >> I am much puzzled by the correspondence concerning digging a hole, etc.
>> >> under a 3-stone stove!!
>> >> If you put fuel into a hole it will certainly burn more slowly with the
>> >> restricted combustion air.
>> >> It will therefore give less heat per minute to the cooking pot.
>> >> How long for the pot to come to the boil, if ever?
>> >>
>> >> Graham Knight
>> >> biodesign20.co.uk
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> >> https://www.avg.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Stoves mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:35:18 +0000
>> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three
>> Stone Cookstove - Update
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> BL0PR18MB212912395960935DBA2F9DF1B1B29 at BL0PR18MB2129.namprd18.prod.outlook.com
>> >
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Dear Kevin
>>
>> This is another fine piece of work. I looked at all the videos and the
>> techniques are clearly explained.
>>
>> I suggest that it is possible to make a round hole and to bundle the fuel
>> with string or grass such that it is prepared in advance and fills the hole
>> completely. This method of cooking with grass and reeds was in use in
>> Ugandan restaurants in 1986 or perhaps 1985. Fuel vendors prepared the
>> fuel for sale in "cylinders" which were dropped into the stove and
>> top-lit. The difference is that the fuel was standing up, not
>> cross-layered and horizontal. I understand they tied the reeds into long
>> bundles with multiple strings and then sliced then like a sausage so one
>> string held one bundle.
>>
>> You might try it to see if it is more convenient than hand-laying the
>> pieces.
>>
>> I am sure a mix of fuels would be better than one alone. Twigs and
>> stover, for example.
>>
>> Realizing that this is potentially wasteful, but have you tried burying a
>> bucket in the ground and using that? You can douse it and lift it out by
>> the handle. In some places buckets are hand made from roofing as a
>> cylinder, not tapered. That might be ideal.
>>
>> Many thanks for your original ideas and extensive field work.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Crispin
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of K
>> McLean
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 15:13
>> To: Stoves and Biofuels Network <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; Ronal
>> Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>> Cookstove - Update
>>
>> Adding a 25x25x25 cm hole to traditional open-fire cookstoves may end the
>> collection of firewood from forests in many areas. By piling fuel in the
>> hole beneath the cookpot and lighting the pile on the top, the fuel burns
>> long, hot, with no tending and with less smoke. And by quenching the
>> embers, cooks make biochar.
>>
>> We found that most woody biomass bigger than thin twigs burns well in the
>> cooking hole<
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FDmzQFCp2kNI&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GGtQyXFPvzO7mFbB9bMNjvUsv64MuWe6UtJmqJLiwi8%3D&reserved=0>.
>> Firewood the size that is typically burned in unmodified three stone
>> cookstoves burns for three hours without tending. Much less smoke is
>> emitted than from an unmodified three stone cookstove. A colleague
>> estimates that the amount of wood in the cooking hole would burn for 30-40
>> minutes in an unmodified three stone cookstove. Here's a video<
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F15V4vTJxO1Lcm0wFzB96pQT9jvgjaXkwh%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1uOjT3ew6FHZMuIG7jeq3zZcQuDHKnON7E4HG987JVc%3D&reserved=0
>> >.
>>
>> Thick twigs burned without tending for 1.5 hours. Thick twigs and small
>> branches are abundant and unused in much of Africa.
>>
>> The cooking hole also works with crop waste (maize stalks and cobs,
>> cassava stems, banana peels, bean stems, ...), elephant grass, bamboo,
>> large sawdust and wood shavings, sawdust briquettes, dung patties and
>> more. Depending on the fuel, the fire will burn without tending for 20
>> minutes to several hours. Here's our training video<
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FDmzQFCp2kNI&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GGtQyXFPvzO7mFbB9bMNjvUsv64MuWe6UtJmqJLiwi8%3D&reserved=0
>> >.
>>
>> Women can:
>> - All but stop collecting firewood.
>> - Leave the kitchen to do other things once they start the fire.
>> - Make biochar.
>>
>> And 8-12 common bricks can support two cookpots over one cooking hole
>> allowing two meals to be cooked with the same amount of fuel and time it
>> takes to cook one meal. The time to boil is only a few minutes longer than
>> for one pot.
>> [cid:image001.jpg at 01D88586.BA2EC9D0]
>>
>>
>> In much of Africa, most people know how to make bricks. We show them how
>> to make free custom bricks to line the cooking hole. Here is a video<
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1b2WvePKX_ofnELUWhexqQZR4NyCrXxnH%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dsharing&data=05%7C01%7C%7C68bcf13a7d194e0b350d08da53cb771b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637914430623277935%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IeKQEii4NbgtfQZmX8o5k9t%2FRaNn2cMhJydcOgUdwbQ%3D&reserved=0
>> >.
>>
>> Kevin McLean
>> Sun24
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 15:48:16 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: "briancady413 at yahoo.com" <briancady413 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three
>> Stone Cookstove - Update
>> Message-ID: <1727848971.7377854.1655912896599 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> This discussion seems valuable.An addition, For What It's Worth:Cook and
>> make biochar with merely a shovel? - Dakota fire hole modified to make
>> biochar cleanly - progress so far.
>>
>> |
>> |
>> |
>> | | |
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
>> |
>> | |
>> Cook and make biochar with merely a shovel? - Dakota fire hole modified
>> ...
>>
>> Dakota fire holes are easy to build/dig, burn cleanly and clean up well.
>> For more on these one can see: https://...
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>> |
>>
>>
>> Brian-
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 11:39:53 AM EDT, Crispin
>> Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Kevin
>>
>> ?
>>
>> This is another fine piece of work. I looked at all the videos and the
>> techniques are clearly explained.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I suggest that it is possible to make a round hole and to bundle the fuel
>> with string or grass such that it is prepared in advance and fills the hole
>> completely.? This method of cooking with grass and reeds was in use in
>> Ugandan restaurants in 1986 or perhaps 1985.? Fuel vendors prepared the
>> fuel for sale in ?cylinders? which were dropped into the stove and
>> top-lit.? The difference is that the fuel was standing up, not
>> cross-layered and horizontal.? I understand they tied the reeds into long
>> bundles with multiple strings and then sliced then like a sausage so one
>> string held one bundle.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> You might try it to see if it is more convenient than hand-laying the
>> pieces.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I am sure a mix of fuels would be better than one alone.? Twigs and
>> stover, for example.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Realizing that this is potentially wasteful, but have you tried burying a
>> bucket in the ground and using that? You can douse it and lift it out by
>> the handle. ?In some places buckets are hand made from roofing as a
>> cylinder, not tapered. ?That might be ideal.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Many thanks for your original ideas and extensive field work.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>> ?
>>
>> ?
>>
>> ?
>>
>> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>On Behalf Of K
>> McLean
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 15:13
>> To: Stoves and Biofuels Network <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; Ronal
>> Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Cooking Hole Modification to Three Stone
>> Cookstove - Update
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Adding a 25x25x25 cm hole to traditional open-fire cookstoves may end the
>> collection of firewood from forests?in many areas.? By piling fuel in the
>> hole beneath the cookpot and lighting the pile on the top, the fuel burns
>> long, hot, with no tending and with less smoke.? And by quenching the
>> embers, cooks make biochar.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> We found that most woody biomass bigger?than thin twigs burns well in
>> the?cooking hole.? Firewood the size that is typically burned in unmodified
>> three stone cookstoves burns for three hours without tending.? Much less
>> smoke is emitted?than from an unmodified three stone cookstove.? A
>> colleague estimates that the amount of wood in the cooking hole would burn
>> for 30-40 minutes in an unmodified three stone cookstove.? Here's avideo.?
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Thick twigs burned without tending for 1.5 hours.? Thick twigs and small
>> branches are abundant and unused in much of Africa.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> The cooking hole also works with crop waste (maize stalks and cobs,
>> cassava stems, banana peels, bean stems, ...), elephant grass, bamboo,
>> large sawdust and wood shavings, sawdust briquettes, dung patties and
>> more.? Depending on the fuel, the fire will burn without tending for 20
>> minutes to several hours.? Here's ourtraining video.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Women can:
>>
>>
>> - All but stop collecting firewood.
>>
>> - Leave the kitchen to do other things once they start the fire.
>>
>> - Make biochar.
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> And 8-12 common bricks can support two cookpots over one cooking hole
>> allowing two meals to be cooked with the same amount of fuel and time it
>> takes to cook?one meal.? The time to boil is only a few minutes longer than
>> for one pot.
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> ?
>>
>> In much of Africa, most people know how to make bricks.? We show them how
>> to make free custom bricks to line the cooking hole.? Here is a?video.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Kevin McLean
>>
>> Sun24
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,? News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 142, Issue 4
>> **************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
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