[Stoves] [Biochar] Ceramic Philosophy: Request for Pyrolysis Biochar Stove Designs

Sun Feb 12 15:15:59 CST 2023

Thanks so much, Stephen.

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 3:33 AM Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
> Part of the process.  There are also sites on the clay where there are
> salt impurities and crystal defects where thermal decomposition of the
> biomass is enhanced.   There is a really interesting paper that looks at
> the effects of a 2:1 on pyrolysis of paper mill waste that talks a little
> about this
> Kumar, Mohit, S. N. Upadhyay, and P. K. Mishra. "Effect of Montmorillonite
> clay on pyrolysis of paper mill waste." *Bioresource technology* 307
> (2020): 123161.
>
> Another paper found that During pyrolysis, bentonite clay promoted
> Diels–Alder reactions that transformed furans to aromatic compounds, which
> decreased the bio-oil oxygen content and produced a fuel closer to being
> suitable for existing infrastructure.  Which reinforces that reference I
> gave before about clay increasing stability.
>
> Karod, M., Pollard, Z.A., Ahmad, M.T., Dou, G., Gao, L. and Goldfarb,
> J.L., 2022. Impact of bentonite clay on in situ pyrolysis vs. hydrothermal
> carbonization of avocado pit biomass. *Catalysts*, *12*(6), p.655.
>
> I just found this really interesting paper that summarised many of the
> effects we have seen when we make these biochar mineral complexes. Olivelli,
> M.S., Fugariu, I., Torres Sánchez, R.M., Curutchet, G., Simpson, A.J. and
> Simpson, M.J., 2020. Unraveling mechanisms behind biomass–clay interactions
> using comprehensive multiphase nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR)
> spectroscopy. *ACS Earth and Space Chemistry*, *4*(11), pp.2061-2072.
> Free download at
>
> https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/107305/1/acsearthspacechem.0c00215accepted.pdf
>
> I think it is part of the reason why terra preta soils are so productive.
> Not only is there clay  pyrolysed with the biomass but they put old pottery
> with the biochar into the soil.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 9:01 PM Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> Does kaolin prevent the premature release of oily compounds, binding with
>> them so that they break down properly into syngas?
>>
>> Paul Olivier
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 4:42 PM Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paul
>>> Thanks for your comments
>>> Clays are acid catalysts and help the charring and combustion process.
>>> Regards
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 2:43 PM Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stephen,
>>>>
>>>> I like so much what you write here about clay and biochar.
>>>> When we add a small amount of kaolin to coffee husks and then make
>>>> pellets, instead of yellow flame and a lot of black smoke, we get a
>>>> beautiful blue flame when gasified.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Paul Olivier
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 3:27 AM Stephen Joseph <joey.stephen at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Gabriel
>>>>>
>>>>> I started my biochar career when I taught Indigenous Australians
>>>>> ceramics, engineering and manual arts.  They taught me how to make and use
>>>>> biochar.  But the most valuable lesson they taught me was clay and biochar
>>>>> are synergistic.  The yin and the yang the white and the black.  They use
>>>>> this combination in medicine, for cooking and in art.  From a
>>>>> scientific perspective, we have found that pretreating biomass with clay
>>>>> and or postreating the biochar with clay improves it properties.
>>>>>  Pretreating with clay helps to increase yields and condenses out organic
>>>>> compounds on the clay that helps seeds germinate and provides food for
>>>>> microbes.  We also found that bacteria that can fix carbon and nitrogen
>>>>> grow at the interface between the carbon matrix and the clay platelets.
>>>>> Because kaolin clay has a much higher AEC and bentonite clay a higher CEC
>>>>> than biochars then you increase the nutrient holding capacity.
>>>>>
>>>>> But pretreating with clay also increases persistence of the biochar.
>>>>> The present methodologies don't take this into account.
>>>>> People should read these article
>>>>>
>>>>> Wang, F., Zhang, R., Donne, S.W., Beyad, Y., Liu, X., Duan, X., Yang,
>>>>> T., Su, P. and Sun, H., 2022. Co-pyrolysis of wood chips and
>>>>> bentonite/kaolin: Influence of temperatures and minerals on characteristics
>>>>> and carbon sequestration potential of biochar. *Science of The Total
>>>>> Environment*, *838*, p.156081.
>>>>> Rawal, A., Joseph, S.D., Hook, J.M., Chia, C.H., Munroe, P.R., Donne,
>>>>> S., Lin, Y., Phelan, D., Mitchell, D.R., Pace, B. and Horvat, J., 2016.
>>>>> Mineral–biochar composites: molecular structure and porosity. *Environmental
>>>>> science & technology*, *50*(14), pp.7706-7714.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rafiq, M.K., Joseph, S.D., Li, F., Bai, Y., Shang, Z., Rawal, A.,
>>>>> Hook, J.M., Munroe, P.R., Donne, S., Taherymoosavi, S. and Mitchell, D.R.,
>>>>> 2017. Pyrolysis of attapulgite clay blended with yak dung enhances pasture
>>>>> growth and soil health: Characterization and initial field trials. *Science
>>>>> of the Total Environment*, *607*, pp.184-194.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reynolds, A., Joseph, S.D., Verheyen, T.V., Chinu, K., Taherymoosavi,
>>>>> S., Munroe, P.R., Donne, S., Pace, B., van Zwieten, L., Marjo, C.E. and
>>>>> Thomas, T., 2018. Effect of clay and iron sulphate on volatile and
>>>>> water-extractable organic compounds in bamboo biochars. *Journal of
>>>>> Analytical and Applied Pyrolysis*, *133*, pp.22-29
>>>>>
>>>>> stephen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 2:40 AM Gabriel Reed <gabriel at gabrielreed.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a quick note of deep gratitude and thanks to everyone for this
>>>>>> discussion and pointing me toward such valuable resources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to collaborating with anyone interested. Toward that
>>>>>> end, I will be bringing a select group of Continental Philosopher's from
>>>>>> the United States to Colombia in May and we will work with local indigenous
>>>>>> leaders and clay to further this dialogue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a ceramist I study how fire moves through space. While it seems
>>>>>> clear that any industrial TLUD stoves would benefit from being made of
>>>>>> metal, my hunch is that there may be some productive sideways education,
>>>>>> awareness, and perhaps technology on the ceramic side.  I intend on
>>>>>> creating a series of exploratory biochar producing sculptures in the spirit
>>>>>> of Braseros. For those of you who have been to the Museum of Anthropology
>>>>>> in Mexico City, these vessels will be familiar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, as a philosopher, I study the imagination of clay and fire
>>>>>> and would like to offer a few excellent resources to the group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Gaston Bachelard, Psychoanalysis of Fire (1938)
>>>>>> 2. Stephen J. Pyne, Fire: A Brief History - Second Edition (2019)
>>>>>> 3. Jo Handelsman, A World Without Soil (2021)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gabriel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Gabriel Reed*
>>>>>> cell (816) 808-9158
>>>>>> www.gabrielreed.com <http://gabrielreed.com/> (coming soon...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 1:59 AM Ron Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biochar:  cc Jed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I meant this to go to both lists
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> *Subject: **Re: [Stoves] [Biochar] Ceramic Philosophy: Request for
>>>>>>> Pyrolysis Biochar Stove Designs*
>>>>>>> *Date: *February 8, 2023 at 11:56:41 PM MST
>>>>>>> *To: *"stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org" <
>>>>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, gabriel at gabrielreed.com
>>>>>>> *Cc: *Joshua Guinto <jed.building.bridges at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gabriel and List, cc Joshua (Jed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I urge more than the Facebook.  See his website (given at the
>>>>>>> Facebook site)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I should have remembered and recommended Joshua.  In the world of
>>>>>>> charcoal making cookstoves, if we had to score everyone on artistic
>>>>>>> capabilities, I’d give Joshua an A+, with the next place person/firm maybe
>>>>>>> getting a C.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just went looking for proof of this and couldn’t find an example
>>>>>>> for half an hour.  But see some sites below.  So - Joshua - can you send a
>>>>>>> couple of other examples, where artistic design was part of your sales
>>>>>>> strategy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See more below
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2023, at 6:54 PM, Joshua Guinto <
>>>>>>> jed.building.bridges at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Gabriel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm interested in what you do for ageoecoloegy and how stoves Will
>>>>>>> fit into your work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We at Bahay Teknik is doing a lot with clay and we formulate our own
>>>>>>> recipe to produce firebricks for our rocket stoves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua:  I had forgotten on this.  Gabriel will know that potters
>>>>>>> have to pay a lot for firebricks in their gas and electric kilns.  Maybe a
>>>>>>> third (??) of the weight of regular bricks - highly efficient.  I have no
>>>>>>> idea how to make one, but presumably Joshua would be willing to sell some -
>>>>>>> maybe even of your own design.  I hope he can expand on the next sentence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We also make variations of recipes for different types of bricks
>>>>>>> depending upon the required functions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our rocket.stoves is actually a hybrid of a rocket and a TLUD
>>>>>>> gasifier. With pili nut shells which we have in abundance in my region, the
>>>>>>> stove runs on a gasifier mode during the first fuel load and then switch to
>>>>>>> rocket thereafter. It can run on wood sticks, wood pellets, holey
>>>>>>> briquettes and pili (or small size nut) shells. Temperature at the fire
>>>>>>> chamber could go as high as 700 degrees Celsius, thus producing a good
>>>>>>> quality brochar.
>>>>>>> We can harvest the biochar with ease by simply dumping the hot char
>>>>>>> in a pan of water.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may visit our Facebook page Bahay Teknik. Our manager Sandino
>>>>>>> will be glad to assist you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *[RWL:  I’ve just spent more than an hour wandering around.  Found
>>>>>>> many things new to me.  Example here is a 1 hour video on biochar:
>>>>>>>  https://www.facebook.com/bahayteknik/videos/551466433518685
>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/bahayteknik/videos/551466433518685>*
>>>>>>> * It is in a native language - as it should be.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * I found a huge file of photos. About 5 (out of at least 500) that
>>>>>>> showed a bit of his combined engineering and art skills.  Here is an
>>>>>>> example of the very small number I could find.  I’ll bet he has made
>>>>>>> hundreds like this - with little repetition.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * I was amazed at the advances seen in pizza ovens.  Maybe
>>>>>>> 10 different designs.  Some that could be very cheap.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * It is now so late that I have to stop.   Josh - congratulations on
>>>>>>> having accomplished so much.  It must be very satisfying to be working with
>>>>>>> a very talented son.  Please talk a little about the likely big difficulty
>>>>>>> of combining your art talents with a shop focussed on low-cost biochar.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Ron*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jed Guinto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 5:54 am Ronal Larson, <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gabriel and ccs (adding the stoves list (the predecessor “mother”
>>>>>>>> of the biochar (terra preta) group you started with.  [note different
>>>>>>>> address for Paul]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Welcome as a first poster.  We need more potters on this list - as
>>>>>>>> so many cook stoves are presently being made by potters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I write as husband of a potter.  I have tried to make several clay
>>>>>>>> TLUDs.  I failed.   Cracked. Pretty quickly   But I still think that
>>>>>>>> char-making can be done in ceramic stoves.
>>>>>>>> There is some clay being sold with paper as an ingredient that is
>>>>>>>> claimed to have minimal expansion as heated up (the exhaust gas
>>>>>>>> temperatures are pretty impressive.  I have never heard of anyone using
>>>>>>>> such clay.  I haven’t)
>>>>>>>> The top of a TLUD will get up to cone 022 (dull red) in a minute or
>>>>>>>> so, while the bottom is still room temperature.  Having the cylinder be
>>>>>>>> segmented will help, but you also are trying to control air.  Not like
>>>>>>>> heating up in a kiln.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kevin McLean has had considerable charcoal-making success with
>>>>>>>> unfired large un-fired clay “bricks."  See his Sun24 website. The firing as
>>>>>>>> a stove will do some hardening of the clay.  Too early to get lifetime data
>>>>>>>> with Kevin’s nice low-cost approach.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn’t worry too much about Terra Preta.  Very valuable
>>>>>>>> discussions around 2000-2010 - but no connection to pottery.
>>>>>>>>  (One exception - I’ve seen some literature that the ancient
>>>>>>>> Amazonians also obtained a product like that coming from a present day
>>>>>>>> low-temperature approach called HTC, they using big clay urns)
>>>>>>>> The sites www.biochar-international.org and www.biochar-us.org
>>>>>>>> will give some good information.  Especially on webinars - some have been
>>>>>>>> on stoves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Teel, Wayne <teelws at jmu.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gabriel,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get in contact with Paul Anderson, , and he will help you from
>>>>>>>> there.  He is a regular and valuable contributor to this list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* main at Biochar.groups.io <main at Biochar.groups.io> *On Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of *Gabriel Reed
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 8, 2023 12:21 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* main at Biochar.groups.io
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [Biochar] Ceramic Philosophy: Request for Pyrolysis
>>>>>>>> Biochar Stove Designs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *CAUTION: *This email originated from outside of JMU. Do not click
>>>>>>>> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
>>>>>>>> content is safe.
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First post in this group.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm a ceramic philosopher doing some research here in Cali,
>>>>>>>> Colombia and am interested in building pyrolysis stoves for an agroecology
>>>>>>>> project called Fundcación Yūtopialab. If anyone has resources they can
>>>>>>>> point me to specifically on the topic of Terra Preta and/or especially
>>>>>>>> stove designs that would be greatly appreciated!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gabriel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>>> 104/43 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>>> Dalat
>>>> Vietnam
>>>>
>>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>>> http://epwt.vn/en/home/
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>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 104/43 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://epwt.vn/en/home/
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-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD
104/43 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://epwt.vn/en/home/
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