[Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
Ronal Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sun Jan 15 00:05:35 CST 2023
Paul and list
Fantastic set of photos! Thanks.
I can’t find photos from last week - and yours are 15+ years old - and we need all three to tell the story.
I think many of us live near a zoo and probably can talk our way into a plentiful supply. In this case I think maybe horse dung - not cattle. Anyone able to confirm those are from horses? Maybe Yaks? If guaranteed to be horse dung, then we don’t need zoos.
They probably are already pretty expert in burning the dung in the bottom photo. But many on this list can probably conceive of a char-making approach. Won’t be easy. We’ll probably need something 3-4 times the size stove shown - to get practical cook times, with the low density fuel.
Or rmaybe there is a means of densifying the dung?
if cattle dung is available easily to anyone - that will certainly be worth using instead - for other countries.
Anyone on the list able to answer any of the above speculations?
Ron
Not pertinent - but the cheese to the left of the stove in the middle photo is in a home-made container that is round at the top and square at the bottom. Never Jenn one before.
> On Jan 14, 2023, at 11:45 AM, Paul Arveson <paularveson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Below are three photos of a dung stove I saw in Mongolia in 2007. It had a chimney, and the cook prepared a variety of cheese products with this stove. There is not much wood to burn in Mongolia.
>
> Paul Arveson
>
> <Mongolia-cook.JPG>
>
> <Mongolia-stove.JPG>
>
>
> <Mongolia-dung.JPG>
>
> On 1/6/2023 7:09 PM, Ronal Larson wrote:
>> Kevin, Paul et al:
>>
>> 1. Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying attention to the large number combusting dung - and do agree we should be trying to improve its combustion in cookstoves. It might even be possible to make them fairly clean.
>>
>> 2. But I think it much better to promote a switch to charcoal-making stoves. Not just for dung, but for every fuel. Guaranteed to be cleaner, but also money making because of application of the char to agriculture. And we need urgently to be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).
>>
>> 3. Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee paper: A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning Cookstove for Humanitarian Purposes☆ <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39#aep-article-footnote-id3>
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39 <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39>
>>
>> 4. They used dung from a zoo - and found giraffe dung the best. I did have occasion recently to also see some giraffe dung at the Denver zoo. Really a wonderful size, shape and uniformity with giraffe dung . Unfortunately giraffes are also a releaser of enteric methane.
>> Lots of good combined methane and dung data at this site:
>> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/tellusb.v38i3-4.15135 <https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/tellusb.v38i3-4.15135>
>> Maybe we can promote conversion to the dung of non-ruminants - such as warthogs?
>>
>> 5. And hope we can all agree with Paul Olivier - on eventual no combustion of dung of any type. But I may still be promoting more pyrolysis of dung - to sped up carbon content increase in soils.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2023, at 2:12 AM, Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org> <mailto:kevin at sun24.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Paul, Ron,
>>>
>>> The only site I can find on the number of people relying on dung as a cooking fuel says it is two billion people <https://energypedia.info/wiki/Cooking_with_Dung#cite_note-Solid_Biofuels_http:.2F.2Fbiofuel.org.uk.2Fsolid-biofuels.html-1>. I doubt it is this high, but it's probably in the hundreds of millions. Most are probably in South Asia.
>>>
>>> Cooking with dung is exceptionally dirty. This soot contains black carbon, a powerful climate forcer. And this soot contributes to air pollution.
>>>
>>> I'm working with a group that is trying to slow glacial melt in the Himalayas. Soot landing on glaciers is a primary cause of glacial melt. Some think that cooking with biomass may be the primary source of soot that lands on Himalayan glaciers.
>>>
>>> I agree that there are better uses of dung. And I agree that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods that are cleaner than burning dung. But the fact is that many millions of families will continue to cook with dung indefinitely. It would be good if we can make cooking with dung cleaner and more efficient until these families transition to something better.
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 11:59 PM Ronal Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>> wrote:
>>> Kevin, Paul and stoves list
>>>
>>> 1. What is the reason for this test of a rocket - instead of a TLUD or other char-making design?
>>>
>>> 2. I agree with Paul, but I can conceive of cost, time spent, and CDR advantages of charring dung, at lest with certain family situations. But I can’t see those advantages with combusting dung.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>> On Jan 5, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com <mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dung is not a good fuel.
>>>> It is much better to ferment it and use it as a feed.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 10:12 PM Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org <mailto:kevin at sun24.org>> wrote:
>>>> List,
>>>>
>>>> Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes? And can anyone in India help us with our testing of dung as fuel?
>>>>
>>>> This is very similar to a sawdust cookstove. We made cylinders of dung with vertical holes in the center and let them dry for a month. We did not mix anything into the dung. We used 5 liter paint cans to form the cylinders.
>>>>
>>>> <Dung rocket stove - wet.jpeg>
>>>> <Dung cylinder - Failed test.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>> We tested with and without a metal can over the dung cylinder. We raised the cylinder and lit a wood fire under it. The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke. Here is a video <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCrABfFFOVlvtGn925VW8FT9lXl660Zk/view?usp=share_link> of the test with a metal can over the dung cylinder.
>>>>
>>>> We seem to be having early success with upright dung sticks in a metal band and top lighting piles of dung patties. But these need to be tested by people more familiar with using dung as fuel.
>>>>
>>>> <Dung sticks in a metal band.jpeg>
>>>> <TDB of pile of dung patties.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>> We could use some help from someone in an area where dung is used for cooking. None of my colleagues live in such an area.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>> Kevin McLean, President
>>>> Sun24.org <http://sun24.org/>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>>> 104/43 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>>> Dalat
>>>> Vietnam
>>>>
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