[Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** RE: [SPAM] ***SPAM*** Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 149, Issue 10
ajheggie at gmail.com
ajheggie at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 04:57:59 CST 2023
Aside from the practicalities and the argument put forward by Crispin when
it is the only fuel available and should be burned cleanly:
Jaime Marti Herrero in Bolivia developed a low temperature digester that
used tubular polythene for containment
Andrew
On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 at 05:57, <willem_boers at kpnmail.nl> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Using dung as fuel is a kind of sin. Dung is a fertilizer and should be
> used as such. Sometimes people are forced to use dung but nevertheless.
>
>
>
> It is better to feed the dung into a biodigester, take out the biogas and
> still have the bioslurry that can be used as a biofertilizer.
>
>
>
> In Nepal the Biogas Support Programme and AEPC developed high-altitude
> biodigesters. One option is to build the biodigester in e greenhouse
> keeping the temperature high enough for digestion and gas production and an
> opportunity to grow crops.
>
>
>
> With kind regards,
>
>
>
> Willem Boers
>
>
>
>
>
> *Willem Boers*
>
> *Sustainable Energy & Biogas Solutions | **KvK No.65982363* *| **Tax
> Ref/BTW-id: NL001486036B12*
>
> *Making a contribution to a just world.*
>
> *e-mail: willem_boers at yahoo.com <willem_boers at yahoo.com> | Skype:
> willemboerssnv | Cell: +31 617 484 324 | * *Cell Rwanda: +250 791 77
> 4642*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> *On Behalf Of *Norman
> Baker
> *Sent:* 16 January 2023 21:18
> *To:* stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* [SPAM] [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: Stoves Digest, Vol 149, Issue 10
>
>
>
> Kevin;
>
>
>
> Document exactly how dung is prepared and what kind it is and we will try
> to replicate for emissions testing.
>
>
>
> Norm
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 10:05 AM <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> wrote:
>
> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
> (K McLean)
> 2. Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test (Kevin McLean)
> 3. ***SPAM*** RE: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
> (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> 4. Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed
> Test (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> 5. Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed
> Test (Kevin McLean)
> 6. Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed
> Test (tmiles at trmiles.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 20:14:07 -0500
> From: K McLean <kmclean56 at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove -
> Failed Test
> Message-ID:
> <
> CALxcr-tjW-Z7ga11oymB-eXL0WA-umkisgajSemhdwmBW0bq9A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Stanley,
>
> You inspired me. I have colleagues in Uganda, Malawi and Kenya knee and
> elbow deep in dung testing your idea. Great results so far. They all find
> it very easy to soak dung and wring out the water with a woven plast 100 kg
> grain bags (ubiquitous in Africa). The solution is very brown and the
> washed dung is much lighter in color. And when filtered through biochar,
> the brown water comes out clear. Two of them have young plants to test the
> brown liquid and charged biochar on. We are waiting on the patties to dry
> to test as cooking fuel. This is exciting.
>
> Kevin
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 8:03 PM Richard Stanley <rstanley at mind.net> wrote:
>
> > So friends of the dung : Is there no word back from any of you, save tom
> ,
> > regarding the simple washing and seiving out of the dung to release
> liquid
> > fertilizer while preserving the inherent lignin for use as a CL E A N
> > burning fuel? ?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Jan 15, 2023, at 6:49 PM, Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Also, Crispin. Have you tested anything related to top-lit bundles in
> > bands?
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:49 PM Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Crispin,
> >>
> >> In high Mongolia, no crops or vegetables are grown so there is no need
> >> for fertilizer or biochar as a soil amendment, correct?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:13 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> >> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Ron and All
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I will consolidate several message responses.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > a. We?d rather not cook with dung at all (agreeing with Paul
> >>> Olivier below).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There are a number of places where dung is used because it can he
> >>> accessed ?in house? for example in a crowded urban area without access
> to
> >>> purchased fuels. The cow does the energy collection during the day and
> >>> provides it free to the family. It is not only where alternative
> fuels are
> >>> absent. If it is free and convenient, people use it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Just because fuel is free doesn?t mean it has to be burned badly. Just
> >>> because a fuel is burned badly doesn?t mean it cannot be burned
> cleanly.
> >>> Just because a fuel could make biochar doesn?t mean it is wise to do
> so.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > b. We think making char apt to be cleaner and good for soil, but
> >>> carbon dioxide removal (CDR) may also mean one can make money while
> >>> cooking. Might also save time for the cooks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Many people have no soil, and cannot grow anything in the soil they
> have
> >>> access to. This is generally true for all high altitude locations
> where
> >>> dung burning in a rural area is widespread. Such areas include the
> whole of
> >>> the northern and southern Himalayas. In the Pamir of Tajikistan, if
> you do
> >>> not burn dung, you die.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > c. We are unaware of any char-making stoves using dung (because
> dung
> >>> is so non-dense - need a lot more volume.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is a good point. If you have to collect and (usually) process the
> >>> dung, the resulting fuel is not very energy dense, meaning available
> >>> MJ/kg. Plus it is not dense kg/m3. If you are creating char from a
> >>> low energy fuel, it is not wise in terms of effort. If you only get
> 1/3 of
> >>> the available energy because the rest is tied up in char, you will
> have to
> >>> collect 3 times are much fuel. Who is going to do that?! People are
> not
> >>> crazy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > 5. Other:
> >>>
> >>> a. Anyone think that the present users of
> >>> dung-burning stoves in Mongolia and similar would surely or not-at-all
> >>> welcome such a stove?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The photo Paul sent of a ?dung burning stove? shown a box with a
> chimney
> >>> ? typical of all Mongolian local baseline products. There is nothing
> >>> ?dung-burning? about the design. They are typically made from 2mm
> steel
> >>> sheet and are good space heaters ? with wood or dung. As wood burners
> they
> >>> tend to be pretty good, but they are terrible coal stoves which is the
> >>> preferred urban fuel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A reasonably designed dung-burning stove such as the KG2.5
> >>> <
> http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/library/Stoves/Kyrgyzstan/KG%20Model2.5/
> >
> >>> produced in Bishkek has staged combustion and the ability to cook at
> least
> >>> two pots ? water heating being a major need. Stoves, when not
> cooking, are
> >>> often heating 3 containers of water.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Anyone able to confirm those are from horses? Maybe Yaks? If
> >>> guaranteed to be horse dung, then we don?t need zoos.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dung source depends of geography and climate. Yaks can live on very
> >>> poor grasses (like bison) and excrete modestly sized pellets. Bigger
> than a
> >>> horse (?road apples?) and much smaller than cattle. In the high cold
> >>> regions, dung dries rapidly however it is often collected, wetted, and
> >>> mixed with chopped grass, for instance in southern Tibet. The reason
> is an
> >>> absolute scarcity of fuel. If they were to make char, they would
> freeze
> >>> due to lack of energy.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > There is not much wood to burn in Mongolia.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There is a massive amount of wood to burn in Mongolia, depending on
> >>> where you are of course. North of Ulaanbaatar there are huge
> forests. The
> >>> sawmills create enormous piles of sawdust which, when the market
> conditions
> >>> are right, is made into wood pellets or briquettes. But only some.
> Most
> >>> is too far away to complete with chopped and split wood. I estimate
> thar
> >>> the population of UB burns more than 100,000 tons of wood each
> winter. It
> >>> is a preferred summer time fuel, where the stove is removed to be used
> >>> outdoors (because it overheats the yurt).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying attention
> to
> >>> the large number combusting dung - and do agree we should be trying
> to
> >>> improve its combustion in cookstoves. It might even be possible to
> make
> >>> them fairly clean.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Of course it is. Burning low density fuels (not only dung) requires
> >>> particular air control and grate bar spacing. It has very light ash
> so if
> >>> the fuel is burned completely, it has rather a lot of fine white ash
> which
> >>> can be lofted easily. That needs consideration.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >But I think it much better to promote a switch to charcoal-making
> >>> stoves. Not just for dung, but for every fuel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It is OK to think that, just don?t expect people to act on it. Doing
> so
> >>> for most dung burning region would impose a huge additional
> labour-burden
> >>> on women, in particular. Gender rights advocates should rise up as
> One to
> >>> protest any plan to enforce dung-burning char-making stoves on anyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >And we need urgently to be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You want the energy-poorest people in the world to get involved in CO2
> >>> removal? How more anti-poor can a policy possibly be?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > 3. Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee
> >>> paper: A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning Cookstove for Humanitarian
> >>> Purposes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ?Humanitarian?? How more anti-poor could a proposal be? Go to southern
> >>> Tibet. Altitude, 16,000 ft. Nothing except grass and the occasional
> >>> rhododendron can grow there. Either you live on animal products, or
> >>> imported food, or you die. No one is going to waste 2/3 of their
> available
> >>> energy supply to appease rich, Western climate fanatics.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Cooking with dung is exceptionally dirty.
> >>>
> >>> Nonsense. Cooking with a stove not designed for dung is ?dirty?.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I'm working with a group that is trying to slow glacial melt in the
> >>> Himalayas.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Then develop a clear burning stove combustor, and while you are at it,
> >>> make it more thermally efficient so the mass needed per winter is
> reduced
> >>> by, say, 50%.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >And I agree that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods
> that
> >>> are cleaner than burning dung.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I pressure you have never seen a good dung burning stoves. There is no
> >>> ?dirt? in dung. There is no ?smoke?. Smoke is produced by stoves not
> >>> burning it properly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Dung is not a good fuel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Second opinion: Dung is a good fuel. Most stoves that burn it (not all)
> >>> are absolute crap.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the
> >>> test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is a big ask. An whole theory of combustion is needed to address
> >>> the matter. The consolidation of the dung into a large single mass
> cause a
> >>> lot of the problems. That is not how to prepare dung. A great deal
> can be
> >>> learned by observing people who use it. Here is a Tajik dung burning
> stove
> >>> loaded before ignition:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <image001.png>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Note the large pieces of wood used to establish a hot coal bed. Once
> it
> >>> is going well, the fire will be pushed to the far end of the chamber
> and
> >>> new fuel added at the door. No fuel is placed on top of a going fire.
> This
> >>> arrangement is very clean burning.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This lady was involved in stove promotion for three years before seeing
> >>> this simple, locally designed dung burning stove. She tried it and
> said it
> >>> was the first time in three years of promoting ISC that the ?was
> excited?
> >>> about a stove.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> <image002.png>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The combustion is at the back under the big pot. The water warming is
> >>> at the front, not at the back, and it was very clean burning ? even
> though
> >>> at this time the design was primitive. The KG2.5 came after 3 years of
> >>> further development and is significantly more efficient, cleaner
> burning
> >>> and burns for far longer on a load of fuel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is dung preparation in rural Tajikistan:
> >>>
> >>> <image003.png>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is one of several typical preparations. The diameter is about 5
> >>> inches. The format suits poorly designed stoves with high excess air.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is Umedjani Kurbon, aged 12, who is the operator of the CNC plasma
> >>> cutter. He got the responsibility because he could read and do simple
> >>> arithmetic. He had never received any instructions on how to use it
> >>> properly. If you zoom the screen, you can see the standard shapes from
> >>> which to select a cut. They owned no computer on which they could to
> >>> prepare whole parts. This gives you an idea of the conditions in which
> >>> producers live.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is not surprising because, with good intentions, you were
> guessing.
> >>> Now you know several things not to do. It might have done better if it
> have
> >>> been dried at 105 C for a couple of days. But I doubt it. It has to
> have a
> >>> certain surface-to-volume ratio and controlled primary air to burn
> >>> cleanly. The total surface burning at any one time sets the
> firepower. If
> >>> you break each piece of fuel in half, it will increase the gasification
> >>> (devolatilisation) rate. A certain primary air flow is required for
> each
> >>> surface area burn, and a separate secondary air flow is needed that
> relates
> >>> to that gasification rate. You should aim for an oxygen concentration
> of
> >>> 10% in the exhaust.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Good luck!
> >>>
> >>> Crispin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> New Dawn Engineering Inc.
> >>>
> >>> P.O. Box 3
> >>>
> >>> Alberta Beach, Alberta
> >>>
> >>> Canada T0E 0A0
> >>>
> >>> www.newdawnengineering.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Research & Design Office
> >>>
> >>> 5011 Crestview Drive
> >>>
> >>> Val Quentin , Alberta
> >>>
> >>> Canada, T0E 0A0
> >>>
> >>> +1-519-886-7772
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Mobile
> >>>
> >>> Canada +1-519-729-3442 + WhatsApp + WeChat
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Email: crispinpigott at outlook.com
> >>>
> >>> crispin at newdawnengineering.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Stoves mailing list
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
> site:
> >>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 20:26:17 -0500
> From: Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
> Message-ID:
> <CALxcr-tczM=XAR1jLfWKa665N0YOF=_
> VWPhwg7Zxb5ARKBUc-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I think the upright fuel enables just the tips to burn. Much more
> efficient. My guess is that air comes up from below into the low pressure
> created by the flame keeping the fire somewhat controlled as it burns
> down. And allowing for a more complete and clean combustion. You and
> others with a better background can figure this out. I hope you improve
> it.
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 8:09 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> > I was so impressed with your attempts earlier to try this that I saved a
> > stash of corn stove/stalks from the garden intending to try it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have almost completed by emissions evacuation system in the workshop
> and
> > will at some point try it out.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some ideas about how it might work well. I like the idea of using
> > a band to hold low density fuels which are tedious to burn otherwise. Too
> > much fiddling to push them in. I saw this sort of cooking in Eastern
> Niger
> > with millet stalks ? the dominant fuel there. If it is worked out well,
> > you should be able to promote it in the Sahel. There are lots of people
> > who can work with metal (*forgerons*).
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> *On Behalf Of
> *Kevin
> > McLean
> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2023 17:44
> > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, Crispin. Have you tested anything related to top-lit bundles in
> > bands?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:49 PM Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org> wrote:
> >
> > Crispin,
> >
> >
> >
> > In high Mongolia, no crops or vegetables are grown so there is no need
> for
> > fertilizer or biochar as a soil amendment, correct?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:13 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> > crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ron and All
> >
> >
> >
> > I will consolidate several message responses.
> >
> >
> >
> > > a. We?d rather not cook with dung at all (agreeing with Paul Olivier
> > below).
> >
> >
> >
> > There are a number of places where dung is used because it can he
> accessed
> > ?in house? for example in a crowded urban area without access to
> purchased
> > fuels. The cow does the energy collection during the day and provides it
> > free to the family. It is not only where alternative fuels are absent.
> If
> > it is free and convenient, people use it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just because fuel is free doesn?t mean it has to be burned badly. Just
> > because a fuel is burned badly doesn?t mean it cannot be burned cleanly.
> > Just because a fuel could make biochar doesn?t mean it is wise to do so.
> >
> >
> >
> > > b. We think making char apt to be cleaner and good for soil, but
> carbon
> > dioxide removal (CDR) may also mean one can make money while cooking.
> > Might also save time for the cooks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Many people have no soil, and cannot grow anything in the soil they have
> > access to. This is generally true for all high altitude locations where
> > dung burning in a rural area is widespread. Such areas include the whole
> of
> > the northern and southern Himalayas. In the Pamir of Tajikistan, if you
> do
> > not burn dung, you die.
> >
> >
> >
> > > c. We are unaware of any char-making stoves using dung (because dung
> > is so non-dense - need a lot more volume.)
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a good point. If you have to collect and (usually) process the
> > dung, the resulting fuel is not very energy dense, meaning available
> > MJ/kg. Plus it is not dense kg/m3. If you are creating char from a low
> > energy fuel, it is not wise in terms of effort. If you only get 1/3 of
> the
> > available energy because the rest is tied up in char, you will have to
> > collect 3 times are much fuel. Who is going to do that?! People are not
> > crazy.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 5. Other:
> >
> > a. Anyone think that the present users of
> dung-burning
> > stoves in Mongolia and similar would surely or not-at-all welcome such a
> > stove?
> >
> >
> >
> > The photo Paul sent of a ?dung burning stove? shown a box with a chimney
> ?
> > typical of all Mongolian local baseline products. There is nothing
> > ?dung-burning? about the design. They are typically made from 2mm steel
> > sheet and are good space heaters ? with wood or dung. As wood burners
> they
> > tend to be pretty good, but they are terrible coal stoves which is the
> > preferred urban fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > A reasonably designed dung-burning stove such as the KG2.5
> > <
> http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/library/Stoves/Kyrgyzstan/KG%20Model2.5/
> >
> > produced in Bishkek has staged combustion and the ability to cook at
> least
> > two pots ? water heating being a major need. Stoves, when not cooking,
> are
> > often heating 3 containers of water.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Anyone able to confirm those are from horses? Maybe Yaks? If
> > guaranteed to be horse dung, then we don?t need zoos.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dung source depends of geography and climate. Yaks can live on very
> poor
> > grasses (like bison) and excrete modestly sized pellets. Bigger than a
> > horse (?road apples?) and much smaller than cattle. In the high cold
> > regions, dung dries rapidly however it is often collected, wetted, and
> > mixed with chopped grass, for instance in southern Tibet. The reason is
> an
> > absolute scarcity of fuel. If they were to make char, they would freeze
> > due to lack of energy.
> >
> >
> >
> > > There is not much wood to burn in Mongolia.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is a massive amount of wood to burn in Mongolia, depending on where
> > you are of course. North of Ulaanbaatar there are huge forests. The
> > sawmills create enormous piles of sawdust which, when the market
> conditions
> > are right, is made into wood pellets or briquettes. But only some. Most
> > is too far away to complete with chopped and split wood. I estimate thar
> > the population of UB burns more than 100,000 tons of wood each winter.
> It
> > is a preferred summer time fuel, where the stove is removed to be used
> > outdoors (because it overheats the yurt).
> >
> >
> >
> > > Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying attention to
> > the large number combusting dung - and do agree we should be trying to
> > improve its combustion in cookstoves. It might even be possible to make
> > them fairly clean.
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course it is. Burning low density fuels (not only dung) requires
> > particular air control and grate bar spacing. It has very light ash so
> if
> > the fuel is burned completely, it has rather a lot of fine white ash
> which
> > can be lofted easily. That needs consideration.
> >
> >
> >
> > >But I think it much better to promote a switch to charcoal-making
> stoves.
> > Not just for dung, but for every fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > It is OK to think that, just don?t expect people to act on it. Doing so
> > for most dung burning region would impose a huge additional labour-burden
> > on women, in particular. Gender rights advocates should rise up as One
> to
> > protest any plan to enforce dung-burning char-making stoves on anyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > >And we need urgently to be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).
> >
> >
> >
> > You want the energy-poorest people in the world to get involved in CO2
> > removal? How more anti-poor can a policy possibly be?
> >
> >
> >
> > > 3. Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee
> > paper: A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning Cookstove for Humanitarian
> > Purposes
> >
> >
> >
> > ?Humanitarian?? How more anti-poor could a proposal be? Go to southern
> > Tibet. Altitude, 16,000 ft. Nothing except grass and the occasional
> > rhododendron can grow there. Either you live on animal products, or
> > imported food, or you die. No one is going to waste 2/3 of their
> available
> > energy supply to appease rich, Western climate fanatics.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Cooking with dung is exceptionally dirty.
> >
> > Nonsense. Cooking with a stove not designed for dung is ?dirty?.
> >
> >
> >
> > > I'm working with a group that is trying to slow glacial melt in the
> > Himalayas.
> >
> >
> >
> > Then develop a clear burning stove combustor, and while you are at it,
> > make it more thermally efficient so the mass needed per winter is reduced
> > by, say, 50%.
> >
> >
> >
> > >And I agree that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods that
> > are cleaner than burning dung.
> >
> >
> >
> > I pressure you have never seen a good dung burning stoves. There is no
> > ?dirt? in dung. There is no ?smoke?. Smoke is produced by stoves not
> > burning it properly.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Dung is not a good fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > Second opinion: Dung is a good fuel. Most stoves that burn it (not all)
> > are absolute crap.
> >
> >
> >
> > >Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the
> > test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes?
> >
> >
> >
> > This is a big ask. An whole theory of combustion is needed to address the
> > matter. The consolidation of the dung into a large single mass cause a
> lot
> > of the problems. That is not how to prepare dung. A great deal can be
> > learned by observing people who use it. Here is a Tajik dung burning
> stove
> > loaded before ignition:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Note the large pieces of wood used to establish a hot coal bed. Once it
> > is going well, the fire will be pushed to the far end of the chamber and
> > new fuel added at the door. No fuel is placed on top of a going fire.
> This
> > arrangement is very clean burning.
> >
> >
> >
> > This lady was involved in stove promotion for three years before seeing
> > this simple, locally designed dung burning stove. She tried it and said
> it
> > was the first time in three years of promoting ISC that the ?was excited?
> > about a stove.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The combustion is at the back under the big pot. The water warming is at
> > the front, not at the back, and it was very clean burning ? even though
> at
> > this time the design was primitive. The KG2.5 came after 3 years of
> > further development and is significantly more efficient, cleaner burning
> > and burns for far longer on a load of fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is dung preparation in rural Tajikistan:
> >
> >
> >
> > This is one of several typical preparations. The diameter is about 5
> > inches. The format suits poorly designed stoves with high excess air.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is Umedjani Kurbon, aged 12, who is the operator of the CNC plasma
> > cutter. He got the responsibility because he could read and do simple
> > arithmetic. He had never received any instructions on how to use it
> > properly. If you zoom the screen, you can see the standard shapes from
> > which to select a cut. They owned no computer on which they could to
> > prepare whole parts. This gives you an idea of the conditions in which
> > producers live.
> >
> >
> >
> > >The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke.
> >
> >
> >
> > This is not surprising because, with good intentions, you were guessing.
> > Now you know several things not to do. It might have done better if it
> have
> > been dried at 105 C for a couple of days. But I doubt it. It has to
> have a
> > certain surface-to-volume ratio and controlled primary air to burn
> > cleanly. The total surface burning at any one time sets the firepower.
> If
> > you break each piece of fuel in half, it will increase the gasification
> > (devolatilisation) rate. A certain primary air flow is required for each
> > surface area burn, and a separate secondary air flow is needed that
> relates
> > to that gasification rate. You should aim for an oxygen concentration of
> > 10% in the exhaust.
> >
> >
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> >
> >
> >
> > New Dawn Engineering Inc.
> >
> > P.O. Box 3
> >
> > Alberta Beach, Alberta
> >
> > Canada T0E 0A0
> >
> > www.newdawnengineering.com
> > <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newdawnengineering.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C62f11d8b6bfe44f7f48b08daf75bfe26%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638094271768454569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2B%2F6P%2FH1xUp01dRDD6cl6Wyr0r%2Baz%2BxJN1pbaZQpzJ2w%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Research & Design Office
> >
> > 5011 Crestview Drive
> >
> > Val Quentin , Alberta
> >
> > Canada, T0E 0A0
> >
> > +1-519-886-7772
> >
> >
> >
> > Mobile
> >
> > Canada +1-519-729-3442 + WhatsApp + WeChat
> >
> >
> >
> > Email: crispinpigott at outlook.com
> >
> > crispin at newdawnengineering.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
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> > <
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> >
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> > <
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C62f11d8b6bfe44f7f48b08daf75bfe26%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638094271768454569%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DpAfHaNNmzfVC4NYM6k4Y6u8WVSVB8JGq0LGh7RWURU%3D&reserved=0
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
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> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 01:27:00 +0000
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** RE: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove -
> Failed Test
> Message-ID:
> <
> MW4P223MB05620C0B9D7A38FBC06D1EADB1C19 at MW4P223MB0562.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Richard
>
> Inevitably there is some of that happening when the processors of dung
> cakes re?form the collected material into standard patties, but I do not
> th8ink this is deliberate.
>
> I was thinking of a completely unrelated use of dung that does related to
> the ?washing?.
>
> In the mid-70?s Peace Corp was conducting research in Uganda on using the
> highly acid water (which they called dung-water) to set clay. This is an
> extremely low tech version of making a geopolymer.
>
> Dig two pits with a shallow channel allowing overflow from pit 1 to go to
> pit 2.
> Fill pit 1 with water and dung. Let it stew for a time.
> Slowly add water so that the upper level of the fluid flows/dribbles into
> pit 2.
> This washes the dung and concentrates the low pH fluid in pit 2.
>
> Take this ?concentrate? from pit 2 and mix it with particular type(s) of
> clay and pound into used shapes like foundations for houses.
>
> If the clay is right, and the concentrate is adequate, there is a chemical
> reaction that sets the clay hard enough to take running water flowing over
> it for years. It was advocated as away to improve houses without cement.
> A brochure was produced and I saw one in 1977 in Swaziland. I understand
> now, having read a lot, that it is a primitive way to make an alkaline
> based geopolymer. It can have a pH of 8 to 12. At 10 it is already ideal
> for geopolymer as long as you know exactly what you have in have with the
> clay. It is much more likely that blending clays or crushed/powdered rock
> will deliver the right Si:O:Al ratio to make a decent geopolymer. It has
> to be quite precise to get a =SI=O=Al=Si=Al=O=?. material. There are many
> variations of that. Fired geopolymers might make very good combustion
> chambers. I have seen samples.
>
> There are hints here<mailto:https://
> www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-technology/could-ancient-peruvians-soften-stone-00847>
> for how geopolymers used to be made but the real deal is the book
> ?Geopolymers? (5th edition) by Prof Joseph Davidovits.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of
> Richard Stanley
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 17:58
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test
>
> So friends of the dung : Is there no word back from any of you, save tom ,
> regarding the simple washing and seiving out of the dung to release liquid
> fertilizer while preserving the inherent lignin for use as a CL E A N
> burning fuel? ?
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 15, 2023, at 6:49 PM, Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org<mailto:
> kevin at sun24.org>> wrote:
> ?
> Also, Crispin. Have you tested anything related to top-lit bundles in
> bands?
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:49 PM Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org<mailto:
> kevin at sun24.org>> wrote:
> Crispin,
>
> In high Mongolia, no crops or vegetables are grown so there is no need for
> fertilizer or biochar as a soil amendment, correct?
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 4:13 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Ron and All
>
>
>
> I will consolidate several message responses.
>
>
>
> > a. We?d rather not cook with dung at all (agreeing with Paul Olivier
> below).
>
>
>
> There are a number of places where dung is used because it can he accessed
> ?in house? for example in a crowded urban area without access to purchased
> fuels. The cow does the energy collection during the day and provides it
> free to the family. It is not only where alternative fuels are absent. If
> it is free and convenient, people use it.
>
>
>
> Just because fuel is free doesn?t mean it has to be burned badly. Just
> because a fuel is burned badly doesn?t mean it cannot be burned cleanly.
> Just because a fuel could make biochar doesn?t mean it is wise to do so.
>
>
>
> > b. We think making char apt to be cleaner and good for soil, but carbon
> dioxide removal (CDR) may also mean one can make money while cooking.
> Might also save time for the cooks.
>
>
>
> Many people have no soil, and cannot grow anything in the soil they have
> access to. This is generally true for all high altitude locations where
> dung burning in a rural area is widespread. Such areas include the whole of
> the northern and southern Himalayas. In the Pamir of Tajikistan, if you do
> not burn dung, you die.
>
>
>
> > c. We are unaware of any char-making stoves using dung (because dung
> is so non-dense - need a lot more volume.)
>
>
>
> This is a good point. If you have to collect and (usually) process the
> dung, the resulting fuel is not very energy dense, meaning available
> MJ/kg. Plus it is not dense kg/m3. If you are creating char from a low
> energy fuel, it is not wise in terms of effort. If you only get 1/3 of the
> available energy because the rest is tied up in char, you will have to
> collect 3 times are much fuel. Who is going to do that?! People are not
> crazy.
>
>
>
> > 5. Other:
>
> a. Anyone think that the present users of dung-burning
> stoves in Mongolia and similar would surely or not-at-all welcome such a
> stove?
>
>
>
> The photo Paul sent of a ?dung burning stove? shown a box with a chimney ?
> typical of all Mongolian local baseline products. There is nothing
> ?dung-burning? about the design. They are typically made from 2mm steel
> sheet and are good space heaters ? with wood or dung. As wood burners they
> tend to be pretty good, but they are terrible coal stoves which is the
> preferred urban fuel.
>
>
>
> A reasonably designed dung-burning stove such as the KG2.5<mailto:http://
> www.newdawnengineering.com/website/library/Stoves/Kyrgyzstan/KG%20Model2.5/>
> produced in Bishkek has staged combustion and the ability to cook at least
> two pots ? water heating being a major need. Stoves, when not cooking, are
> often heating 3 containers of water.
>
>
>
> > Anyone able to confirm those are from horses? Maybe Yaks? If
> guaranteed to be horse dung, then we don?t need zoos.
>
>
>
> Dung source depends of geography and climate. Yaks can live on very poor
> grasses (like bison) and excrete modestly sized pellets. Bigger than a
> horse (?road apples?) and much smaller than cattle. In the high cold
> regions, dung dries rapidly however it is often collected, wetted, and
> mixed with chopped grass, for instance in southern Tibet. The reason is an
> absolute scarcity of fuel. If they were to make char, they would freeze
> due to lack of energy.
>
>
>
> > There is not much wood to burn in Mongolia.
>
>
>
> There is a massive amount of wood to burn in Mongolia, depending on where
> you are of course. North of Ulaanbaatar there are huge forests. The
> sawmills create enormous piles of sawdust which, when the market conditions
> are right, is made into wood pellets or briquettes. But only some. Most
> is too far away to complete with chopped and split wood. I estimate thar
> the population of UB burns more than 100,000 tons of wood each winter. It
> is a preferred summer time fuel, where the stove is removed to be used
> outdoors (because it overheats the yurt).
>
>
>
> > Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying attention to
> the large number combusting dung - and do agree we should be trying to
> improve its combustion in cookstoves. It might even be possible to make
> them fairly clean.
>
>
>
> Of course it is. Burning low density fuels (not only dung) requires
> particular air control and grate bar spacing. It has very light ash so if
> the fuel is burned completely, it has rather a lot of fine white ash which
> can be lofted easily. That needs consideration.
>
>
>
> >But I think it much better to promote a switch to charcoal-making
> stoves. Not just for dung, but for every fuel.
>
>
>
> It is OK to think that, just don?t expect people to act on it. Doing so
> for most dung burning region would impose a huge additional labour-burden
> on women, in particular. Gender rights advocates should rise up as One to
> protest any plan to enforce dung-burning char-making stoves on anyone.
>
>
>
> >And we need urgently to be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).
>
>
>
> You want the energy-poorest people in the world to get involved in CO2
> removal? How more anti-poor can a policy possibly be?
>
>
>
> > 3. Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee
> paper: A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning Cookstove for Humanitarian
> Purposes
>
>
>
> ?Humanitarian?? How more anti-poor could a proposal be? Go to southern
> Tibet. Altitude, 16,000 ft. Nothing except grass and the occasional
> rhododendron can grow there. Either you live on animal products, or
> imported food, or you die. No one is going to waste 2/3 of their available
> energy supply to appease rich, Western climate fanatics.
>
>
>
> > Cooking with dung is exceptionally dirty.
>
> Nonsense. Cooking with a stove not designed for dung is ?dirty?.
>
>
>
> > I'm working with a group that is trying to slow glacial melt in the
> Himalayas.
>
>
>
> Then develop a clear burning stove combustor, and while you are at it,
> make it more thermally efficient so the mass needed per winter is reduced
> by, say, 50%.
>
>
>
> >And I agree that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods that
> are cleaner than burning dung.
>
>
>
> I pressure you have never seen a good dung burning stoves. There is no
> ?dirt? in dung. There is no ?smoke?. Smoke is produced by stoves not
> burning it properly.
>
>
>
> >Dung is not a good fuel.
>
>
>
> Second opinion: Dung is a good fuel. Most stoves that burn it (not all)
> are absolute crap.
>
>
>
> >Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the
> test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes?
>
>
>
> This is a big ask. An whole theory of combustion is needed to address the
> matter. The consolidation of the dung into a large single mass cause a lot
> of the problems. That is not how to prepare dung. A great deal can be
> learned by observing people who use it. Here is a Tajik dung burning stove
> loaded before ignition:
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> Note the large pieces of wood used to establish a hot coal bed. Once it
> is going well, the fire will be pushed to the far end of the chamber and
> new fuel added at the door. No fuel is placed on top of a going fire. This
> arrangement is very clean burning.
>
>
>
> This lady was involved in stove promotion for three years before seeing
> this simple, locally designed dung burning stove. She tried it and said it
> was the first time in three years of promoting ISC that the ?was excited?
> about a stove.
>
>
> <image002.png>
>
>
>
> The combustion is at the back under the big pot. The water warming is at
> the front, not at the back, and it was very clean burning ? even though at
> this time the design was primitive. The KG2.5 came after 3 years of
> further development and is significantly more efficient, cleaner burning
> and burns for far longer on a load of fuel.
>
>
>
> This is dung preparation in rural Tajikistan:
> <image003.png>
>
>
>
> This is one of several typical preparations. The diameter is about 5
> inches. The format suits poorly designed stoves with high excess air.
>
>
>
> This is Umedjani Kurbon, aged 12, who is the operator of the CNC plasma
> cutter. He got the responsibility because he could read and do simple
> arithmetic. He had never received any instructions on how to use it
> properly. If you zoom the screen, you can see the standard shapes from
> which to select a cut. They owned no computer on which they could to
> prepare whole parts. This gives you an idea of the conditions in which
> producers live.
>
>
>
> >The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke.
>
>
>
> This is not surprising because, with good intentions, you were guessing.
> Now you know several things not to do. It might have done better if it have
> been dried at 105 C for a couple of days. But I doubt it. It has to have a
> certain surface-to-volume ratio and controlled primary air to burn
> cleanly. The total surface burning at any one time sets the firepower. If
> you break each piece of fuel in half, it will increase the gasification
> (devolatilisation) rate. A certain primary air flow is required for each
> surface area burn, and a separate secondary air flow is needed that relates
> to that gasification rate. You should aim for an oxygen concentration of
> 10% in the exhaust.
>
>
>
> Good luck!
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
>
>
>
> New Dawn Engineering Inc.
>
> P.O. Box 3
>
> Alberta Beach, Alberta
>
> Canada T0E 0A0
>
> www.newdawnengineering.com<
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 01:27:02 +0000
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove
> - Failed Test
> Message-ID:
> <
> MW4P223MB05621A7839860FAB75B90F4FB1C19 at MW4P223MB0562.NAMP223.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Well done Kevin.
> Thanks Richard.
>
> Crispin
>
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of K
> McLean
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 18:14
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed
> Test
>
> Hi Stanley,
>
> You inspired me. I have colleagues in Uganda, Malawi and Kenya knee and
> elbow deep in dung testing your idea. Great results so far. They all find
> it very easy to soak dung and wring out the water with a woven plast 100 kg
> grain bags (ubiquitous in Africa). The solution is very brown and the
> washed dung is much lighter in color. And when filtered through biochar,
> the brown water comes out clear. Two of them have young plants to test the
> brown liquid and charged biochar on. We are waiting on the patties to dry
> to test as cooking fuel. This is exciting.
>
> Kevin
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 20:53:40 -0500
> From: Kevin McLean <kevin at sun24.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove
> - Failed Test
> Message-ID:
> <CALxcr-uQarMWL-JcDi9CiCZUo2OpjcHa+Tu5ij4-U6kZw=
> WSmA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Again, I request help finding someone to test washing dung somewhere in
> Asia where cooking with dung is common. This isn't common where my African
> colleagues are so I don't think they are the best testers.
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 8:27 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
> > Well done Kevin.
> >
> > Thanks Richard.
> >
> >
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> *On Behalf Of
> *K
> > McLean
> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2023 18:14
> > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > *Subject:* [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove -
> > Failed Test
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stanley,
> >
> >
> >
> > You inspired me. I have colleagues in Uganda, Malawi and Kenya knee and
> > elbow deep in dung testing your idea. Great results so far. They all
> find
> > it very easy to soak dung and wring out the water with a woven plast 100
> kg
> > grain bags (ubiquitous in Africa). The solution is very brown and the
> > washed dung is much lighter in color. And when filtered through biochar,
> > the brown water comes out clear. Two of them have young plants to test
> the
> > brown liquid and charged biochar on. We are waiting on the patties to
> dry
> > to test as cooking fuel. This is exciting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20230115/36e3ffe4/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2023 19:26:10 -0800
> From: <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove
> - Failed Test
> Message-ID: <008201d9295a$48056990$d8103cb0$@trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Instead of burning nutrients and losing them to the atmosphere, make
> biochar from lower nutrient straws and corn stover and combine the biochar
> one part biochar with two parts manure. Use is at establishment and as top
> dressing. That?s a proven (Warm Heart Worldwide) combination. Let the
> biochar be the slow-release agent for the nutrients in the manure. That way
> the carbon and nutrients will cycle through the soil, promote carbon
> sequestration through photosynthesis and benefit both the farmer and the
> environment.
>
>
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> On Behalf Of Kevin
> McLean
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 5:54 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove -
> Failed Test
>
>
>
> Again, I request help finding someone to test washing dung somewhere in
> Asia where cooking with dung is common. This isn't common where my African
> colleagues are so I don't think they are the best testers.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 8:27 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com> > wrote:
>
> Well done Kevin.
>
> Thanks Richard.
>
>
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Stoves <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:
> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> > On Behalf Of K McLean
> Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2023 18:14
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: Dung Rocket Stove - Failed
> Test
>
>
>
> Hi Stanley,
>
>
>
> You inspired me. I have colleagues in Uganda, Malawi and Kenya knee and
> elbow deep in dung testing your idea. Great results so far. They all find
> it very easy to soak dung and wring out the water with a woven plast 100 kg
> grain bags (ubiquitous in Africa). The solution is very brown and the
> washed dung is much lighter in color. And when filtered through biochar,
> the brown water comes out clear. Two of them have young plants to test the
> brown liquid and charged biochar on. We are waiting on the patties to dry
> to test as cooking fuel. This is exciting.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 149, Issue 10
> ***************************************
>
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>
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