[Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for woodgas?

Sat Aug 13 13:54:56 CDT 2011

GF,

 For the engines I run, (Using Hoof Mechanical, or Woodward
Electronic) governors the loads are not a big problem, hence my KISS
statement about including advance.

IF, this was a motive application, then advance simply for the
smoothness, would be a consideration.

Greg

On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 1:40 PM, GF <gfwhell at aol.com> wrote:
> Greg,
> You are right about the fixed load (co generation) However, I would like to
> build the set to handle an inconsistent load "if" the machine has to operate
> independently.
> My experience on the last set I built, "initially operated" independently,
> running on natural gas and it had to deal with sudden loads which had a
> tendency to pull the rpm down which effected the
> frequency. I corrected this problem as best I could with a governor I made,
> using two synchronous motors and a "differential assembly" If both motors
> ran at the same speed the control shaft remained stationary. One motor was
> connected to the output of the alternator while the other was fed from an
> inverter with the desired frequency. If the frequency dropped, the out put
> arm moved to open the throttle, if the frequency went above the inverter
> output,the arm moved to close the throttle. Not having automatic advance
> retard would have made the control of the engine less precise.
> The field voltage controlling the output voltage  was electronic and
> automatic. All this was done in the "analogue age" .
> After a 10 hour run the mains operated electric clock was only two minutes
> slow.
>
> GF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2011 1:22 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for woodgas?
>
> GF, I was speaking of a homemade Spark conversion assembly, no
> advance, as you where speaking about a generator (generators run at a
> fixed RPM).
> the only thing that moves on a generator is the throttle, as to load
> conditions, a 2 magnetic pole generator would need the generator's
> armature to spin at 3600 rpm, a 4 pole at 1800 a 5 pole at 1200 rpm,
> this is assuming 60 hertz, 50 hertz is different. 1500 for 4 pole if
> memory serves me correct.
> Greg
> Advance is NOT needed in Generator conditions.
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 10:00 PM, GF <gfwhell at aol.com> wrote:
>> Hi Greg,
>> Well I do have a  Red Lion. "Rate Mutiplier/Divider". The engine is
>> complete
>> with gearbox and injectors. I wondered if the aftermarket ignition system
>> might have
>> an electronic automatic advance system which is hopefully adjustable?
>> However, Is the ignition system capable of firing 4 spark plugs
>> simultaneously? or is a "distributor" included with the kit? Sorry to be
>> such a novice. The engine is a four cylinder 1300 cc I believe.
>>
>> GF
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:33 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for woodgas?
>>
>> -Hi GF, List.
>> It would make a good candidate rom the standoint of high compression,
>> is is a three of four cylinder ?
>> The injector pump could simply be removed and a  cover plate installed.
>> As far as Solid-state timing and CDI spark, We could get "Real Fancy"
>> with a PIC or Stamp, but really now, KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid), the
>> most relable way would be a hall effect transister and a devide by 4
>> counter (assuming that this engine is a 4 cylinder) the pulse train
>> for the counter's clock cycle could be a second hall effect transistor
>> counting flywheel teeth (the main sensor would be TDC or what ever
>> basic advance you would want in the system.
>> The Flywheel tooth sensor would be clocked by the teeth themself's,
>> and a devide by "X" counter would count "X" flywheel teeth and then
>> advance the devide by 4 counter for spark trigger.
>> the entire SI conversion unit could be housed in a WP zinc project box
>> (Hammond or equ.) and the hall effect transistors are available from
>> most electronics supply houses or Woodward (used on the L or M series
>> position controlers).
>> The entire unit (trigger assy), NOT CDI or coil packs or plug
>> conversions, should cost under 20 bucks, the rest would be in the
>> 100-250 area.
>> Getting a set of injectors from the scrapyard would save on design
>> cost of the sparkplug conversion, by using the spare injector bodies
>> as the "meat" of the plug converters.
>> Sparkplugs,  I would assume that a 1" (25mm) reach plug wold be required.
>> Champion has a "find by type" application
>>
>> http://www.championsparkplugs.com/search_char.asp?threadSize=14mm&hexSize=&gap=&seatType=gasket&terminalType=&heatRange=&reach=25.4mm+%281%22%29&resistor=&action.x=44&action.y=14
>> (watch for word wrap on the above)
>> Greg
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 7:23 PM, GF <gfwhell at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Greg,
>>> I have an old complete Rabbit Diesel engine (early version).Do you think
>>> this would make a suitable candidate for conversion to "Wood GAS"
>>> for driving a 15kw alternator? If so what solid state ignition system
>>> should
>>> I substitute for the injector pump?
>>>
>>> GF
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2011 7:49 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Which engine design might be BEST for
>>> woodgas?
>>>
>>> Greetings Pete, and list.
>>> Large piston, long stroke (slow RPM),  many cylinder (8+), high
>>> compression engines, are the best Candidates
>>>  A 16 cylinder 1000 CID 15 to 1 Compression, 5" + stroke would be ideal.
>>> Caterpillar makes a Really Nice 3412. remove the injectors, double the
>>> headgaskets,  re-lash the valves for the higher head height, install
>>> SI unit in place of the injector pump... would be fantastic !!!!
>>> anyone got a cool 40 grand kicking around for the engine ??
>>> Greg Manning
>>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Pete & Sheri <spaco at baldwin-telecom.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since folks are currently commenting on their favorite exotic engine,
>>>> maybe
>>>> it would be worthwhile to examine the whole field of “funny” engines
>>>> that
>>>> have appeared and disappeared over the years as candidates for  the
>>>> unique
>>>> properties of producer gas/woodgas, etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, I have my own favorite funny engine, invented by the brother
>>>> of
>>>> a
>>>> co worker, but I will not burden you all with that one for now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There may even be some value in imagining a ground-up engine design that
>>>> would be IDEAL for our fuel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pete Stanaitis
>>>>
>>>> ------------------
>>>>
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>>>>
>>> --
>>>  Regards,
>>> Greg Manning,
>>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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>> --
>>  Regards,
>> Greg Manning,
>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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>>
> --
>  Regards,
> Greg Manning,
> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
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>

-- 
 Regards,

Greg Manning,
Brandon, Manitoba, Canada