[Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_

Bruce Jackson bpjackso at yahoo.com
Sat Jan 1 08:13:42 CST 2011


Hey,
When this thread started I was shocked. I am very literal, and don't like terms 
to be confusing. At the time I couldn't remember why it bothered me, but I knew 
I didn't like jim's talk of drifting meanings. I knew he was right, so I gave 
that to him. Me, I built a gas producer, and it makes producer gas, because that 
is what the boys back in 1906 called it. I figured I better stay out of it 
because I am so archaic and not hip. Then....
 jim asked about how C-2C connections work. Suddenly, terms like motor, 
generator, engine, phase, and voltage take on very precise meanings. In the 
common, non-literal world out there, you can have an engine being called a 
motor. You can have "split phase" power. When jim started reading all the common 
language (with their meaning drifts) he ran head on into why we should be very 
precise about our terminology, why its so confusing to not be literal. 

 He was trying to learn how an engine that turns a three phase motor, can be 
connected with two banks of capacitors, and used as a generator. This is 
confusing enough, then when you throw in the common misconception about the 
generated power's phase being "split", well it made a great example of what this 
thread was all about.
 Its almost funny...
An engine is a motor, but a motor uses electricity.
A motor is never an engine.
A motor is a generator when its spun by an engine or another motor.
A generator is a motor (on a garden tractor), but mostly its a generator.

 So I guess I am firmly back home in the literal camp, and just ask that if you 
change the meaning of producer gas, that you let me know, so I mumble something 
else when the neighbors see me shaking my grates or stoking my hoppers.
Yours in literal obfuscation,
Bruce Jackson


________________________________
From: Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at 3iAlternativePower.com>
To: a31ford at gmail.com; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:26:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_

Well said, Greg!

During this discussion several well meaning folks have alluded to the 
rationalization that states if an academic paper uses the term "syngas" 
rather than "producer gas" or if a governmental body does the same, it 
becomes some sort of proof positive that the terms are not only 
interchangeable, but we can ignore specificity in favor of a simple catch 
all generic term. All because some professor wrote a paper and, though well 
intentioned, ignorantly used the wrong word!!? Or someone in the government 
demonstrating equal ignorance?

What a joke!

Let's face it. Those that can, do! and those that cannot, teach! Those that 
cannot teach work for the government. It's that simple.

Producer gas, by any other name is still producer gas and if you don't do a 
good job making it, the resulting mess is sticky, smelly and unhealthy.

We manufacture gasifiers. We test the hell out of them before we ship them 
in order to ensure each makes the correct amount of producer gas!

Have a gassy New Year!

Bill Klein,
3i





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Manning" <a31ford at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" 
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_




LMAO Jeff.

You hit two nails with the same hammer.

  Shells' claim is that it "cleans" (their N2 is in the form of a "recumbent
NOx format", that "Boosts" performance to the point of a clean combustion,
as per say, like a hot-rodders's "NOX" add-on).


  Jim's statement (that you included below) Is yet again a form of
deflection, (incorrect of course), Or should I say, Correct.......



  N2 content is EXACTLY the differentiation between "SYNGAS" and "Producer
Gas"



Heck,

There's Town gas, Lime gas, Produced gas, Producer gas, Coal gas, Wood gas,
Piped gas, Charcoal gas, Synthesis (Syn) gas, Lamp gas, Heating gas,
Municipal gas, Queen's gas, Lamp lighters gas, Crier's gas, and finally,
Natural gas.

And as Bill Kline added, the "new and Improved" "GEK Gas" as a tongue in
cheek addition to the already rampant list above.



I'm Tired, of people trying to display a "cow" as a cow that is "New and
Improved" version (chocolate ?), don't muddy the already bad waters of
gasification, with cross-gendered, yuppie-flavored, names of gases that
simply ain't so.



I hate to say it, but... "It's people like you, that have given
gasification the bad name it already has with investors, with your "pie in
the sky claims"".

Jim, run your "Syngas" un-stripped in an FT process, (that works), THEN, I
will relinquish the "the moon" to you....(you will deserve it, for your
advances in the quantum mechanics of physics).

Greg Manning,
Canadian Gasifier Ltd.  (http://www.cangas.ca)
Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001

Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
1 (204) 726-1851







-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of Jeff
Davis
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:35 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_


Dear All,


As a side note; I drive by a gasoline station, maybe Shell, that puffs
that they're gasoline has nitrogen added. Interesting...


H. N. Y.,


Jeff


On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 21:07 -0800, jim mason wrote:
> percentage nitrogen density isn't really the relevant racetrack to
> work out the real issues with this tech.





--
________________________________________________

www.puffergas.com

Sent from any port in the storm via  Acer netbook & Ubuntu Remix.


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