[Gasification] equipment suppliers for power generation 40kW ?

Wed Mar 30 22:32:15 CDT 2011

 Greetings Bill, Phillip, and list members.

 First off, Phillip, I think you need to know something.

 Bill runs a Large Gasifier manufacturing facility in upstate New York.

 Second, I run a small Gasifier R&D facility just outside of Brandon,
Manitoba, Canada

 There are MANY on this list that have successful gasifier systems, that
indeed run much more than "8 hours" at a time, in fact I have heating units
that have contiguous runs of 800 hours + with nothing more than cleaning out
the ash bin and restarting.

 I say all of this because of one thing, "Being Hurt" by the broad spectrum
comments of people with your type of attitude toward what is a vital
solution to replacing fossil fuels.

 MANY on this list will simply "water off a ducks back" to your comments,
HOWEVER most will NOT bother to waste their time replying, I for one am NOT
that type (And I see there are others).

 Please, IN the future, become an expert BEFORE making "expert" comments.

 Greg Manning  "Still learning gasification after 12 years" (And NO, I'm NOT
slow or dumb....)

-----Original Message-----
From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of
phillip manske
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:45 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] equipment suppliers for power generation
40kW ?

Hi Bill,

My qualifications are training in The US Navy as an electrician and
subsequent duty as ship electrician.  I left the field due to the lack
of challenge and went to college and got established in the field of
hospital administration and healthcare IT.  I'm visiting the field
again due to increased opportunities for business.  Its a lucrative
field right now and at my age I could use more boredom.  Once the gens
run, you have the whole day off for life or an English or lifescience
Phd.

I have been reviewing alternative energy power systems for the last
eight months and the biggest problem so far has absolutely not been
technical, its getting liability insurance.  All of the techy haters
I've come across have been wrong about the biggest problem.

I have permission to pump 2Mw into the grid and thats about $2mil in
income before I pay for fuel.  To generate that much I need
inexpensive and reliable systems.  I have evaluated gasification but
it just doesn't par well.  I have settled for Chevy flex fuel engines
paired with gens and after that, biomass boilers.

I keep looking for good news about gasification but its just elusive.
I think somewhere the news is good  and I'll spend more time with
gasification after the plant is running.   Some of the on site
comments posted as good are not good.  There is a video posted about
the success about making a gasifier run for 24 hours.  My (diesel)
gens can run a month if I push them.  Off site comments don't help
either.  Comments about varnish and dirt and cleaning the engine after
eight hours are plentiful.

I try to use gasifiers for heat duty but even with that there are
problems.  The flame does not work with stock burners.  You have to
craft dispersal mechanisms to make an adequate burner.

The fuel?  You should chop that into 1" squares but wood that can be
chopped into 1" squares is hard to find and that type chopping is hard
to do.  Changing the wood type and shape causes problems.

Do you want to burn wood/biomass because its cheap and you can makes
lots of money in an honest and decent trade?  Yea, me too. We agree!
Hurst boilers do that without a lot of fuss.

I think the people at GEK have done an outstanding job but they are
process oriented and I am not.  Sometimes the discussion is over my
head.  I make power using biomass,
GEK tames the gasification process and those things are not the same.
My handle is findable and I have posts there and I have voiced my
opinions.

If you want to gasify, get rid of the idea of the generic input.  You
have to focus on one fuel, one that you get regularly by the ton, like
dried manure and see what that fuel does for you.  If it gasifies well
and provides either the heat or syngas you need then by all means use
it.  For me its a project to work on during my off hours and then
after research,  practice and testing, I can hook up.

Thats my case,

Warmest regards

Phillip Manske

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Bill Klein
<Bill_Klein at 3ialternativepower.com> wrote:
> Dear Mr. Manske:
>
> Your experiences with GEK aka Gasification EXPERIMENTAL Kit is a fairly
low
> grade qualification as an expert.
>
> When it comes to gasifiers and their operation, very often, but not
always,
> we find operator error is the problem and, secondarily, operator's
inability
> or unwillingness to accept responsibility for their inability to follow
> simple operation instruction.
>
> Granted, there is low grade equipment out there, posing as top grade, but,
> just as one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear, with gasification
and
> gasifiers, you will only get what you pay for and, as hard as it may be to
> believe, there are no free lunches! One owes it to their sensibile self to
> investigate before they buy. Don't you think?  .
>
> If you wish to slam GEK, call up Jim Mason and do so. If you are an
expert,
> state your credentials. There are many of us out here that not only own
and
> operate successful gasifiers, but have spent our lives and our own money
> improving them. If you want to lurk, do so, but don't slam an industry
about
> which you know little.
>
> Incidentally, The GEK has made an incredible contribution to this industry
> and has raised a great deal of awareness about the process worldwide. I'm
> sorry for your bad experience, but perhaps you should look in the mirror
> before you publicly attack.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Bill Klein
> 3i
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "phillip manske" <pdmanske at gmail.com>
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] equipment suppliers for power generation 40kW
?
>
>
> Hi - I would not recommend using gasifiers until you are very familiar
> with them.  GEK makes a set but it costs $20,000 for 20kw and works
> sporadically.  If you need to make electricity, use diesel, veg oil,
> ethanol or steam.  Learn about the gasifier and  then get one type of
> mass to burn.  Its a real serious undertaking.  I would not rely on it
> for reliable power.
>
> P
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Li CHEN <chen at sol3d.com> wrote:
>> Dear Doug,
>>
>> I am interested in these two questions too.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Li
>> Le 30/03/2011 15:54, Jérémie Biton a écrit :
>>
>> Thanks for those who answered me on this forum or in private.
>>
>>
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> Can you tell me where you experienced gasification in Madagascar?
>>
>> Who were the French engineers?
>>
>> Do you know if it is still running?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremie Biton
>>
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